alan seales: hey, everybody. i'm alan seales with thetalks at google program. thank you for coming out on thiswonderful move and movie day. can't beat live theater. this is wonderful. so without further ado, winnerof the tony triple crown for best musical, bestscore, and best book, "avenue q" is part flesh, partfelt, and packed with heart. please welcome thecast of "avenue q."
rod: ah. an afternoon alonewith my favorite book, "broadway musicalsof the 1940s." no roommate to bother me. how could it get anybetter than this? nicky: oh. hi, rod. rod: hi, nicky. nicky: hey, rod.
you'll never guess whathappened to me on the subway this morning. this guy was smiling atme and talking to me. rod: mm, that'svery interesting. nicky: mm-hm. he was being real friendly. and, you know, i thinkhe was coming onto me. i think he might havethought i was gay. ha.
rod: so why are you telling me? why should i care? i don't care. what'd you have for lunch today? nicky: oh, rod, there's noneed to get all defensive. rod: i'm not getting defensive. what do i care aboutsome gay guy you met, hm? i am trying to read. nicky: i didn't meananything by it, rod.
i just think it's something weshould be able to talk about. rod: well, i do not want totalk about it, ok, nicky? this conversation is over. nicky: yeah, but rod-- rod: over! [music_-_"if_you_were_gay"] rod: nicky, please. what? rod: i am not listening.
la la la la. nicky: ow. ok, bye, everyone. i have to go this way. rod: i'll be back. veronica kuehn: hi, everybody. i'm veronica kuehn andi play kate monster. and this next songis about kate, who has become a kindergartenteaching assistant.
she's about to teach hervery first class by herself. she would like to talkabout the internet, and trekkie monsterhas some other ideas. [music playing] kate monster: finally, iget to teach a whole lesson all by myself. and i'm going to teach somethingmodern, something relevant. the internet. [music - "theinternet is for porn"]
kate monster: trekkie monster. trekkie monster: uh, what? kate monster: get over here. trekkie monster: yeah, yeah. kate monster: youare ruining my song. trekkie monster: oh, me sorry. me know mean to. kate monster: well,if you wouldn't mind please being quiet for aminute so i can finish?
trekkie monster: okey dokey. kate monster: good. kate monster: that is gross. you're a pervert. trekkie monster: sticksand stones, kate monster. kate monster: no, really. normal people don't sitat home and look at porn on the internet. trekkie monster:you have no idea.
ready, normal people? others: ready. kate monster: wait on a second. now, i happen to know fora fact that you, rod, check your portfolio andtrade stocks online. rod: that's correct. kate monster: and brian, youbuy things on amazon.com. brian: sure. kate monster: and gary, youkeep selling your possessions
on ebay. gary: yes, i do. kate monster: andprinceton, you sent me that sweet online birthday card. princeton: true. trekkie monster: ah, but kate,what you think he do after? hm? kate monster: ew. sala iwamatsu: inthis part of the show,
kate monster, who has justbroken up with her boyfriend, asks my character,christmas eve, who is a japanesetherapist, for love advice. kate monster: why can'tpeople get along and love each other, christmas eve? christmas eve: you thinkgetting along same as loving? sometimes love right whereyou hating most, kate monster. kate monster: huh? [music - "the moreyou ruv someone"]
alan seales: kate monster. kate monster: hi. alan seales: can i speakwith you for a second? kate monster: sure. alan seales: ok. kate monster: shouldi come over there? alan seales: yes please. they can set upour chairs for us. so in this show, ifyou guys have not seen,
there is a seductresswho comes and steals your man at one point? kate monster: she does. alan seales: how do you feelabout lucy coming and taking your man? kate monster:well, she's a slut. did you know that? that her full nameis "lucy the slut?" alan seales: i did not, no.
kate monster: that's herfull name, lucy the slut. and that's how ifeel about that. alan seales: ok, so-- thank you. the love scene that you havewith princeton on stage-- kate monster: oh, yes. the first time you had to havesex with princeton on stage, were you nervous? kate monster: well, iwas a little nervous. but we were drinking a lot, sothat actually made it better.
we had some longisland iced teas. we did. alan seales: lucy was notthere for that, right? kate monster: no, she wasn't. we saw her perform earlier,and then we had some drinks. and i took princetonhome with me. outside of the show,are your friends with all the other monsters? oh, yes.
yes, all the monsters. trekkie, but also there'srod and nicky and princeton, and everybody. but we are. we are all friends. we live on avenue q. alan seales: well, very nice. well, thank you. kate monster: thank you.
nice to meet everyone. alan seales: rod, can ispeak with you for a second? rod: absolutely. alan seales: so you andricky, the other gentleman in the show, you wereamong the first couples to be married outsidecity hall with the passage of the same-sex marriage lawsin new york state, correct? alan seales: so what thisexperience like for you? rod: well, groundbreaking,to say the least.
as one of the first gay couplesin new york city to be married, we were also the firstcouple to be married too. so that felt like we werereally groundbreaking for that as well. alan seales: so do youthink now that be openly gay helps others come out anddeal with their own sexuality? and i hope that otherpuppets come out too. you know, it's very hard inthe puppet world to come out. alan seales: ok,thank you very much.
trekkie, can i speak with you? trekkie monster: careful. alan seales: oh, careful. careful. trekkie, do youever have moments where you feel like youare beside yourself? trekkie monster: yes. sometimes back stage, it feelslike there's five or six of me. alan seales: and you happento pop out at the same time.
do you ever havefreak out moments where you look to yourleft or your right and one of your handsjust doesn't work? trekkie monster: what-- the--nope-- this one or this one. no, my hands do exactlywhat me want them to do. alan seales: very good. and so you are a very goodinvestor-- a businessman, correct? trekkie monster: oh, yes.
alan seales: and what isyour primary investment? trekkie monster: porn. alan seales: good, thank you. all right, thank you. all right, everybody. please excuse the puppets. they have to be someone else. and now, human-skin people, feelfree to come up and join me. human skin.
can you guys go down theline and just introduce yourself and whatcharacters you play? darren bluestone: sure. i'm darren bluestone, andi play princeton and rod. danielle thomas:i'm danielle thomas, and i play gary coleman. yes, that gary coleman. nicholas kohn: nicholaskohn, and i play brian. sala iwamatsu: myname is sala iwamatsu,
and i play christmas eve. veronica kuehn: veronica kuehn. i play kate mosnterand lucy the slut. jason jacoby: i'm jason jacoby. i play nicky, trekkie monster,and a couple other characters that are not here today. jennifer barnhart:i'm jennifer barnhart. i'm sort of thepuppet utility girl. i right hand prettymuch everybody.
but i also play a schoolteacher, kate monster's boss, and her name ismrs. thistletwat. thank you. jed resnick: i'm jed resnickand i am the ensemble, and i understudy allthe boys in the show. and i have two mics. alan seales: so congratulationson reaching 10 years. the show hit 10 yearsback in july, correct? yes.
so what's the run on theshos-- six years on broadway and now four years off broadway. what's the difference between--what makes on versus off? danielle thomas: well,there's absolutely no difference in the show. it's-- sala iwamatsu: same set. danielle thomas: same set. jenn barnhart, original broadwaycast member, is here again.
and the three of us closedit on broadway, reopened it off broadway, andwe're still here. so it's the samecast, same puppets. nicholas kohn: thereal difference is this the seat numbers. difference between broadwayand off broadway, 500 seats and above is broadway. 499 and below is off broadway. sala iwamatsu: we have 498.
nicholas kohn: we do. and every night, we thinkabout plugging two more seats from there. but yeah, that's prettymuch the main difference. alan seales: so in thevery beginning, back in the initialdays, it was going through-- the show goes throughworkshops and picks up steam. like, what-- i guess jenn isthe only original cast member. do you remember thatfar back, 10 years ago,
like when the showpicked up steam? and when did youreally feel like this was going to be something? jennifer barnhart: whenthe reviews first came out. i mean-- well, ihad, first of all, seen the show in areading in the basement at the york theater, even twoyears before i was in the show, and thought, this is brilliant. i think one of the thingsthat makes the show so strong
is that it took solong to develop. it was about 2 and 1/2years in development before we did theoriginal off-broadway run. but when i was doing it, ithought, this is hilarious. this is brilliant. i hope people get it. and audiences loved it. and new yorktheater-going audiences, specifically, adored it.
and it became the thing to see. so the tourists didn't know whowe were, but new york theater people were going, oh my god,have you seen "avenue q?" you have to see it. it's brilliant. and we got a loveletter from ben brantley in the "new york times." and that was whenwe sort of thought, hey, i think wegot something here.
and shortly thereafter,we announced we were movinguptown to broadway. so it was pretty great. alan seales: so what changedbetween the workshops, the initial rehearsalsand opening? jennifer barnhart: believe it ornot, not a whole heck of a lot. some of the strongestsongs in the show were the first written. "gay" was written veryearly on. "racist"
was written very early on. you know. having said that, i mean,once we got it to that stage, the original opening nightgift when we transferred uptown to broadway from the bookwriter was a collection of all of the scenes andmaterial and song snippets that had been cut from theshow, and that was 126 pages. so once we got it to that place,then we were off and running. but yeah, now that i saythat, i go, yeah, actually,
we did have a lot of changes. it just is a blur. because when you'rein previews, you're rehearsing during the day andthen doing the show at night. and then you go in andsay, ok, that didn't work. we've got a whole bunchof pages for you to learn. so they'd thrownew material at us and then we'd do it inthe show that night, and then the same processover and over again, so.
alan seales: ok, so you humanskin actors-- nick, danielle, sala-- what was itlike getting used to interacting withthe puppets directly? you look at them onstage, right-- not the actors holding them. danielle thomas:well, the funny thing is, now it's actuallythe complete opposite. if you ever lookat a person, you're like, that's weirdto look at a person.
you're used to lookingat the puppets. and kate is my favorite. gary and kate,we're really close. i think she kind of likes me. she hasn't had ablack man yet, but i'm going to change that, really. yeah, i mean at first you'relike, uh-- person, puppet? but then after a while,because the puppet-- we have amazing,amazing puppeteers.
they go through alot of work to learn how to make thesepuppets come to life. and they are. they're alive and they'rereal, and so you can't help but feel for theseinanimate objects. so you play to the puppets. and the people, eh. nicholas kohn: iremember initially it was a little strangebeing in rehearsals
and talking to a puppetand having-- i mean, the puppets are so gorgeous,and they have such expression. it's not that hardfor that long. but it was a littlebit like, oh, my. this is a thingthat's in my face. and it's really,like, got big guys. and they're gorgeous, but itis a different transition, i think, talking. sala iwamatsu: no, ithought the opposite.
i thought theywere-- the puppets were the best actorsi've ever worked with. sorry. it's almost likelooking at a puppy. they look at you withthese eyes and there's just unconditional love. there's not judgment. so when i joined the company,i came into the company and other people werelike, oh, let's see
if this girl can do it,whereas the puppets were like, oh-- you know, so supportive. i have some problems,but, you know. nicholas kohn: nojudgment, right? sala iwamatsu: no judgment. alan seales: sofor the puppeteers, what was it like for you guys? because you're lookingat the live actors, but everybody is playingback to what's in your hands.
darren bluestone: yeah. yeah, that was abig change for me at first, because i'venever done any puppetry before doing "avenue q." most of us didn't. and then through theaudition process, you learn how to puppeteer. and so i went to schoolfor musical theater, and generally lookingat someone in the eyes.
and so all of a sudden, you'relooking at them in the eyes and they're lookingat your right hand. and it's disorienting at first,but then you kind of just get it, and it-- becauseyou can feel the energy. the puppet and the personbecome one entire entity. and then you can feedoff of their energy. it doesn't matter if they'reexactly looking in your pupils. you can still feel for them. veronica kuehn: yeah.
i will say, it's reallystrange if there's ever a moment where we byaccidentally bump into-- there will be human contact allof a sudden by accident. like, someone bumped me andi was like, oh-- so strange. but yeah. alan seales: do you thinkit's weird for the audience to be watching thepuppets versus you, or do you find that the audiencewatches one versus the other? danielle thomas: i cananswer that question
as a person who saw the show. i didn't want to see "avenue q." well before i was in it, i hadsome friends coming in town. they wanted to see-- i'mlike, any broadway show. "avenue q," the showwith the puppets? come on. we're in new york,we'll see any show. and we went to see"avenue q" and i laughed from the first wordon, from "ba in english"
to all the way through. and at first, you're like,wait, what's going on? you look at the puppets, youkind of look at the people. and it's amazing,especially when the puppet is right besidethe person's face. and you see the same expressionon the person and the puppet. and by "gay," ithink, for me-- i don't even rememberwhen it switched, but i started looking at the puppet.
maybe every now and again,you would look at the person, but they really dobecome one thing. so in the beginning,you're like, i don't know. but early on in theshow, it just all melts and it's amazing. jennifer barnhart: ricklyon, the original designer and originalnicky/trekkie, the puppets, had a great metaphor for it. he said, watching thefirst five minutes
of "avenue q" is verymuch like watching a foreign film with subtitles. because for thefirst five minutes, you're very aware of doing this. and then after awhile, it just becomes part of the storytellingand you don't notice it, so. danielle thomas: that's perfect. darren bluestone: i like that. alan seales: so why do youthink the show works so well--
this is the firstpuppeteering show that i've seen, orshows with puppets, where the puppeteers are incomplete, full view, and part of the show. why does that work here? nicholas kohn: well, jennmight actually have more-- jennifer barnhart: yeah. the first time i starteddoing the show as a puppeteer, i remembered asking thepuppeteers on the first day
of rehearsal, by the way,how are we doing this? are we doing this,or are we doing this? because as a puppeteer-- becausei have a puppetry background as well as an acting background--i'm used to the puppeteer having to be somewhatneutral, and not being seen. and they said, no, no, no. we want this, because we wantit to be, you know, sort of open to interpretation. your face is thesubtle expression
of what's happeningwith the puppet. but since i'm second-handingsomebody, i thought, well, i can't be upstagingthem and doing crazy stuff with my face, because theperson doing the voice is there, and they're acting,and they're doing that. so i'm just goingto do my thing. so i was just trying to beas neutral as i could be. and when we were still offbroadway, one of the audience members who was a friend ofour stage manager came up to me
and said, are you having fun? and i said, i'm a great time. why? and they said, becausei was so distracted by looking at your face. you didn't seem likeyou were emotionally connecting withwhat was happening. i was like, oh. ok.
i guess i have to up my facegame and become part of it. so it was definitelya transition from that puppetry world. but it's so liberating,because i also puppeteer on sesamestreet, and we end up using tv monitorsdown on the ground, and we're used topuppeteering like this. actually, we'reusually on the floor. and you've got to tilt your headsideways to get your head out
of the shot, and you'relooking at the monitor. and this is generallyhow we puppeteer. so being able to doit from here and not having to worry about gettingme out of the shot-- oh, it was heaven. it was wonderful. but then i had tolearn how to coordinate what was happening withmy feet with my hands. and that was a wholeother challenge.
lip syncing in onerhythm and dancing in another, that's a lot. alan seales: so what'sthe weirdest thing that any of you withthe puppets have had to learn to dowith the puppets? what was the most challenging? darren bluestone: uh, sex yeah. because-- i mean, that was themost fun for me to figure out. veronica kuehn: it'sreally-- i mean,
it's arm choreography,essentially. darren bluestone: butthere's so much choreography. nicholas kohn: there'sa part in the show where they're having sex. he's not havingsex with a puppet. veronica kuehn: puppetsex, we should clarify. darren bluestone: oh, yeah. nicholas kohn: veryimportant distinction. alan seales: i think weshould clarify that right now.
darren bluestone: i thought thatwas understood in the question, but apparently not. alan seales: some peoplemay have not seen it yet. sala iwamatsu: at one point--when i first joined the show, i was in the ensemble as well. and i had to puppeteertrekkie monster's silhouette in a window. and he is-- can i say it? he's masturbating.
and i had to practice andpractice and practice. they were like,it's not believable. and i was like, i don'tknow how to do this. i was like, it's so hard. i mean, it is hard. but that was my weird moment. alan seales: only practicebating until you master it. danielle thomas: i will say, asa person acting with a puppet, the weirdest thing is gettingthe hair out of their eyes
and they don't even notice. anybody else? they don't notice thathair is in their eyes. alan seales: oh, you brushthe hair out of their eyes? danielle thomas: i'm like,you don't feel that in your-- veronica kuehn: i'mconstantly doing that to kate. i mean, the way that kate'shair is, it's always getting-- danielle thomas: well,it's usually trekkie. i help him out.
jennifer barnhart: iactually have a question for jason, because as faras tag-team partnering-- now, had you puppeteeredprior to the show? jason jacoby: no. jennifer barnhart: so howwas that process for you? jason jacoby: that's been a veryinteresting process, actually. doing two-- i guessi don't need this. i did two regional productionsbefore joining the company here.
so that was like mytraining to puppeteer. and the firstproduction i did was directed by rick lyon,who originated these roles and is the puppet designer. so that was like my realtraining as a puppeteer. and since then, andnow that you're here, i guess i've done the show--including swings and whatnot-- i've done the show with ninedifferent second handers. and it's a real-- it'sso much fun, really.
it's kind of exhilaratinghaving new people, because everyone-- eventhough it's just a hand, there's so much morethan just a hand. alan seales: iseverybody different? the second-handpeople are different? jason jacoby: oh, yeah. i mean, everything we do,as you saw in the numbers-- there's a lot of it that'svery set and choreographed. but people bring--people are different,
and people bring differentenergies to the work. and the way that jenn and ido a sort of gesture like this is different than how meand others would do it. and it's kind of exhilaratingto work with different people and have that different energy. and to do the samematerial-- and that may look exactly the same,i guess, from an audience standpoint-- but in it,feels very different. alan seales: so do the puppetsthemselves ever make mistakes?
nicholas kohn: occasionally,an eye will pop off or something like that. it happened once in vegas,and it was the most disturbing ever. the audience is just like[gasps] because you really kind of fall in love withthese puppets as people, and their charactersare so well written that, like, all of asudden-- oh, this is bad. darren bluestone: or the rods.
nicholas kohn: or the arm. darren bluestone: the rodswill come off sometimes. danielle thomas:those are the best. jennifer barnhart: the bad ideabear's arm came off one time, and christian, whowas puppeteering it, just sort of flung it away. and then he had hisbear just rub the stump. danielle thomas: wow. alan seales: i want to switch tothe audition process, i guess.
so most of you-- all ofyou except one are new. so the audition process forthis, how different was it from the other shows thatyou've auditioned for? veronica kuehn: who's going? am i going? darren bluestone:yeah, go ahead. veronica kuehn: i mean, itwas one of the longer audition processes i'veever been through. i auditioned for thefirst time in 2007,
and then i ended up joiningthis company in 2011. so i think i went in a totalof seven different times, and had done what they callpuppet camp, which is something that they do-- is if you'vebeen through a couple of different callbacks andthe casting office has said, oh, they'd probablybe good at this, they put you through sort ofa week-long puppet boot camp to see if you can pick upsome of the basic skills that would have to bereally focused on.
so i did that in 2007. alan seales: whatare the basic skills? veronica kuehn: your eye focus. your neutral-- the positionsthat your puppet hands should be resting in whenthey're not gesturing. they always have tocome back to a neutral. focus. darren bluestone:keeping it straight. veronica kuehn: the position.
yeah, the sync. oh, there it is. jenn taught me how to puppeteer. and the sync-- the lipsync that you're working on with matching the puppet'smouth to your mouth. jennifer barnhart: basically,focus, gravity, and breath. veronica kuehn: there it is. jennifer barnhart: focus iswhere the puppet's looking. gravity has to do with theirposture, where ground is,
and breath alsoincludes lip sync, but also [sighingheavily] a sigh like rob does so beautifullyat the top of "gay." alan seales: doany of you-- like, did you get anypractice puppets? or do you go home and sitin a mirror with a sock? darren bluestone: you know,for the actual audition, they give you twolittle ping-pong balls with little eyes on them.
and then you canbring those home. and so i started-- it's likea little elastic around that. and then you justfocus on trying to just move your thumbinstead of your whole-- like, the top part of your hand,so that the puppet doesn't do this weird thingwith its head. so you practice that. and then i actually-- wheni first booked the job, i was a vacation swing.
and they allowed me to take homeone of the old, old princetons. and so i was practicingwith an old princeton at home for themonths leading up to going back infor princeton rod and finally booking that job. alan seales: how many differentsets of puppets are there? you said old rod--or old princeton. veronica kuehn:they've been retired. darren bluestone:it's very tired, yeah.
nicholas kohn: there's 44working puppets in the show, and then there's abunch of old puppets that are used for differentthings-- practice, press events-- rehearsal,things like that. alan seales: so theyget cosmetic face lifts every now and then? nicholas kohn: yeah,he comes in-- i'm sure you know more about that. alan seales: new felt?
jennifer barnhart: actually, no. i don't know what his scheduleis for refurbishing them, or what-- veronica kuehn: theydo get refurbished. nicholas kohn: hemakes them very well. rarely do they needanything, but-- veronica kuehn:well, like lucy-- bible lucy just gota new wig recently. jason jacoby: thetrekkie you saw
today is new as of acouple-- a few months ago. he's a brand-new trekkie. that was an exciting day for us. veronica kuehn: their fur isfluffier-- you know, things-- they get worn a lotfrom being in the show, but every now and then. jennifer barnhart: butit's kind of astonishing that after 10years, we're really on only third generation ofthese puppets, because they are
made-- and each one of themtakes about 120 man hours. they're all craftedby hand, and they cost thousands andthousands of dollars. jed resnick: that's thegenius of rick lyon. alan seales: sowhat's on the inside? jennifer barnhart:everybody assumes that you can make apuppet for, like, $100. and it's like no, sorry. alan seales: all you need isa sock and ping-pong balls.
that's pretty cheap, right. so what's on the inside, though? you said it's elastic, sothe mouth closes on its own. is that neutral? jason jacoby: no, thatwas the ping-pong balls. veronica kuehn: no,that's just the practice. alan seales: oh,the ping-pong balls. darren bluestone: thatwas the practice thing that they gave youfor the audition,
was just ping-pong ballsand an elastic band. alan seales: so unlessyou were there-- darren bluestone:but an actual puppet is made up of so manydifferent materials. jennifer barnhart: foam andfleece and rubber gaskets inside the mouth for thepalate-- for the hard palate. so there's a hard palatethat's shaped like a "v," then there's a ring thatyour thumb fits in. and there's occasionallya little bridge,
sort of like the fretof a guitar that's on the top palate, that helpsanchor your hand in there. and then there's a brain inside. i mean it's, architecturally-- sala iwamatsu: we have threedifferent types of puppets. we have some that have rods. so that they havearms that come out, and they have rods like howrod is so that you can do this. then there's the--
nicholas kohn: live hands. sala iwamatsu:live-hand puppets. and then we have boxes atone point that come to life. and that's like a triggergun, and they do that. darren bluestone: which yousee in "lion king," and stuff like that. that has a lot oftrigger puppets. so boxes are the onlytrigger puppets, right, that are in our show?
sala iwamatsu: i think so. alan seales: you cansee the triggers too. it's all completely outthere, exposed, yeah. so during the auditionprocess, was there anything-- any mistakes thatyou made during the audition process that you take withyou to your future auditions-- if you're auditioning. i don't want to getanyone in trouble. darren bluestone: well, mywhole experience with "avenue q"
started when i firstsaw the show, back when i was a sophomorein high school. and i remember puttingthis awful video on youtube of mesinging "purpose," which is the main song that i guessprinceton sings in the show. and i put it on youtube,and i got information back on facebook by jeff marx, who'sone of the writers of the show. and we startedfacebooking, and we were talking throughoutmy high school career.
and then we stoppedtalking after a while. and we just lost touch. and then randomly,i got the show. and i hadn't talkedto him in forever. and i got the show, andi facebooked him again, and i was like,just so you know, i'm, like, thelead in your show. i'm going to be in "avenue q." and he was like, what?
that's crazy. and he came back and saw meand we had this big reunion. because i'd actuallynever met him. we were just facebooking. i don't know howthat happened-- how that has anythingto do with that. alan seales: that wasn'tmy question at all, but-- darren bluestone: butit was a good story, i wanted to tell it.
nicholas kohn: no,we've actually-- they've actually queued upthat video, darren. we're going to watch it. alan seales: oh, iwish we had that. veronica kuehn: high school! alan seales: so let'stalk about racism. danielle thomas: i'll help. just kidding. alan seales: soobviously the show deals
with racism and sexuality,and bringing a lot of issues to the surface and then puttingthem right there comically in people's faces. i mean, do you think there'sa bigger meaning to the show, or is it all just for fun? danielle thomas: definitely. nicholas kohn: there's tonsof-- this show, i think, is one of the rare timesit's-- i could say, this is a perfect musical.
it's written from top to bottom. and the life lessonsthat you learn in life are kind of portrayedon the stage. and it's stuff that nobodyreally talks about sometimes. and when they cometo the show, i think-- sometimes people geta little offended, especially with "racist." and then they laugh despitethemselves, and they're like, oh, it's ok.
we're ok. everyone's a little bitracist, and it's fine. and i think that'sthe joy of the show. it does put reallife in front of you. and then you-- alan seales: so youthink people walk out of the show with agreater awareness or appreciation for things. nicholas kohn: oh, sure.
alan seales: yeah? has the show ever gottenany blowback-- or you got any blowback from anything? you remember, i guess,initially if the songs were too offensive? people have gotten up and left. nicholas kohn: we had a busloadof people that were from a church-- came-- sala iwamatsu: yeah, wehad nones in the audience.
nicholas kohn: yeah. and they did notstay for act two. danielle thomas: or if wehave children-- i mean, you never know. it's always exciting to seewhen we're going to lose them, if we're going tolose-- ah, there we go. if we don't losethem by "porn," then, we're going to say, oh, we'llget them with [inaudible]. we've had moments wherethere'll be kids right, front,
and center. and we're like, oh,god, i'm so sorry. you're going to have somany questions for your mom when you go home. here it is. nicholas kohn:like, two-year-olds. danielle thomas: yeah. darren bluestone: there wasa woman who left, i think, two weeks ago.
and our sound guy josh, waslike, when she left half-way through act one, shewas like, this place needs to be burnedto the ground. and walked out. and he thought itwas hysterical. he's like, i'll see you there. alan seales: so thedeath of gary coleman-- the real-lifedeath-- how did you deal with that within the show?
danielle thomas: youknow, it's funny. i started the show withthe first national tour. i did the entire tour. and we would all makejokes like-- because he had gotten sickbefore he passed. and we're like, oh my god, gary. hold on, i need a job. you know-- oh my god. what will happen?
and then it really happened. and i was gary colemanthe day that he died. and you would think that iwould be nervous on my job, but i was just sonervous and so afraid. and a lot of the producersand jeff whitty, the writer, called me. and he said, well, we'vereleased a statement, and we're going to say somethingat the end of the show. and so i was just talkingto him and telling him
about how i felt about the show. and he was like, ok, i'mnot going to write anything. you can just saywhat you just said. and i'm like, what? and sala was doing the show. jennifer barnhart:and it was beautiful. danielle thomas: and we getto the theater and i'm like, i'm so nervous. i'm so scared.
and i'm in thebathroom crying, trying to figure out whati want to say. and i'm nervous becauseas soon as i come out, i'm going to say, "that'sgary coleman-- yes, i am." and i'm like, arethey going to boo me? and i was shaking so much. and i come out on the fireescape and i say, yes, i am. and the audience applauds. and i'm like, it's ok.
it's ok. and so we just say-- whichis honestly the truth-- gary's had a really bad deal. and he never cameto see the show. we tried to get himto come see the show. i understand why he wouldn't,but i wish that he would have, because gary is depictedin such a great way on the avenue of "avenue q." he has friends.
he has people who havebecome his family. and he has a lot of adviceto give the younger people. and so we justsaid that-- and we will continue to honor hislegacy by making people laugh, and do what he lovedto do every day. so it was kind of weird,but it ended up being ok. and so i did that speechfor the week after he died. and so he still lives. and i think it's a good--
nicholas kohn: he'salso got the most life experience in the show. and no one's had itharder than gary coleman. so he has probably a lot ofthe-- save for the therapist-- but he has a lot of good advicefor the young kids coming to new york, so. alan seales: sojennifer, you were in the show in its originalsix-year run on broadway, and then you left andthen came back, right?
so what made you come back? jennifer barnhart: well, partof it was-- first of all, we didn't know untilclosing night on broadway that we weren't reallyclosing-- that we were just moving across the streetto new world stages. we didn't know that. so i'd alreadybooked another job. because i was like,well, this gig's over. it's been a lovely six years.
i better figure outwhat the heck is next. so i already had a gig. so i was doing that. and in the years since, i'vebeen exploring other horizons. i've been doing thingsjust as a human. i got to do a season downat alabama shakespeare festival in their springrep doing some shakespeare without puppets, which was funand challenging and exciting. and it's nice-- i'vebeen very fortunate
to be able to come back andjoin the company at times when they're eitherbetween cast members, or if a cast member booksanother job that she can go leave town to do thatfor a little while, or if somebody needsa medical cover-- like a medical leave,that kind of thing. and so i get to swing back intothe show every now and again. actually, every calendaryear since the transfer i have been there for anywherebetween a couple of weeks
and a couple of months. and it's just lovely. it's like coming home again. danielle thomas: what iwill say about "avenue q" is because it's so wellwritten and there's so much heart in the show, that all ofus who have ever done it before feel that. it bleeds out throughout. granted, we do say somethings that are inappropriate
and aren't realized becauseit's what we do on stage. but we also really loveeach other and the company from top to bottom--crew, stage managers, producers-- it's a family. and so we are family. so you go and you comeback for the holidays. you go and you come back. jennifer barnhart: the reunion. danielle thomas: that'swhat "avenue q" is.
it really is a show with heart. and the people that areinvolved, the company that are involved, we have heart. and we are a family,really, on "avenue q." it's not even a joke. it's the honest to god truth. nicholas kohn: it takesa certain specific weirdo to be in this show, but we'revery lovable, happy weirdos. and we have a good time.
alan seales: now,jenn, you go around-- you teach regional productionsof the show, right? you teach them the puppetry? jennifer barnhart: yeah, i haveactually started doing that. i've been going around andcoaching different-- mostly universityproductions, but i got to direct aproduction of the show for the first time earlier thisyear at the adirondack theater festival up in glensfalls, new york which
was a whole other experience,and challenging and fun. i love working withnew puppeteers, and watching them--first of all, discover how hard it is,because everyone that you see here is at a level wherethey make it look so easy that people just assumethat anybody can do it. but really, it's likelearning a foreign language. and when peopledo that boot camp that veronica wastalking about, by the end
of one week of working for sixhours a day, if they're lucky, they've learned howto say, hello, my name is, where's the bathroomin this foreign language. the vocabulary may not be right. the conjugationmay not be right. but at least they'recommunicating an idea. so it is like you'retaking an immersion class. and i love watching puppeteersfirst of all discover that, but then discover theirown potential within it.
and then watch themtranslate from, what is this foreignobject on my arm to being able to make actingchoices through the puppet. and watching thatopen up things in them that they wouldn't have beenable to tap, necessarily, just as a human. alan seales: so the regionalproductions or the university productions, do theymake their own puppets? or do they license,or-- how does that work.
jennifer barnhart: there's acouple of different things. the production idirected, i ended up renting a set fromrick lyon, who has a set that he rents out. mti, musical theatreinternational, who does the rightsfor the show, they have their own set ofpuppets that somebody built. and so there'sthat set available. and actually, the one that ijust did-- the one that i just
coached out at university ofutah, the costume designer who works there-- she'sthe costume professor-- she and i worked together inalabama at alabama shakespeare festival, and sheknew what i did. she said, hey, i'mactually designing puppets. so the fall semester of thispast academic year, they actually put the show on,but the previous spring semester, the costumedesigners crafts class and costume classicmade these puppets based
on her designs, and had anotherpuppeteer friend of mine and colleague, a woman by thename of honey goodenough-- that is her name, and ibelieve she has it trademarked becauseit's a great name-- but she went out and helpedthem learn how to build them. so there's a bunch ofdifferent ways to do it. it's mostly-- and there areother companies out there. i think swazzle puppet companyout in california rents sets. i think it's a little diceyin terms of rights and designs
and all of that. and i honestly can'tspeak to the legality and logistics andissues of that. but i would recommend to anyonewho's considering doing it that they might want tostart by contacting rick lyon and see if his set ofpuppets are available, because they're theoriginal designs, so. alan seales: very nice. jennifer barnhart: andthey're very puppeteerable.
because you can makea puppet look good, but if you haven't worked outthe inner mechanics of it, it won't move very well. so anyway, justa plug for people who know how to designand build puppets. because it's not easy. alan seales: we've got allsorts of groups and internal interests, so i'm sure there's--there's some puppeteers here, i'm sure.
we've got jugglers clubsand everything else, so. yeah. alan seales: darren,congratulations. this is your offbroadway debut, right? darren bluestone: it is, yes. alan seales: so i mean, thiskind of goes back a little bit to the audition processwe were talking about. how long did ittake for you to get used to sharing thestage, i guess--
or not being justyourself up there, of having people notlook at you all the time? does that make sense? darren bluestone: like havingthe puppet along with me? alan seales: yeah, yeah. darren bluestone: yeah,that was interesting. but for some reason,having a puppet next to me allowed me to get in mybody a little bit more for some reason.
i don't know, i think-- alan seales: while being in his. darren bluestone: whilebeing in his, right. because i can look at like thisexternal piece and visually dissect it andwhatever, and figure out which way-- which thingskind of look better, and how to findsome emotion in it. but that allows me to connectthat from this external thing into the rest of mybody for some reason.
because i'm just avery lanky person. i have long arms. my wingspan is longerthan how tall i am. and so having, i guess,this all connected allowed me to not worry about howmuch space i was taking up, and allow the puppetto take up the space. and then that transferredinto the rest of my body. alan seales: cool. so, ok, veronica--kate monster and lucy
the slut-- howmuch fun for you is it to be able to playboth the innocent ingenue and the sex-crazed sultress? veronica kuehn: it's really fun. i get to use two completelydifferent facets of my voice. both of their voicesare very different. but it's probably one ofthe most challenging parts of the show for me. there are several scenes wherei am both voicing kate and lucy
in the same scenetalking to each other, and then jenn will be eitherpuppeting kate or lucy. so i will literally haveconversations with myself. so that can get alittle challenging. it's a little brainteaser for yourself. so if there's ever amoment where i'm not completely focused,i'll notice that i've started to say the wrong thing. jennifer barnhart:keeps me on my toes.
veronica kuehn: yeah, me too. it's really fun, though. it's nice. it's nice to be ableto switch it up. alan seales: so are you morelike kate or lucy in real life? veronica kuehn: um,probably mostly kate. she's the heart character. i think i have a little sassin me as well, from lucy, but generally, i think kate.
alan seales: so did you everfeel slightly silly at first, having puppets have sex? veronica kuehn: oh, yeah. i still feel a littlewonky sometimes. i mean, i don't completely, 100%confident with my puppeteering ever, and i've been doingit for 2 and 1/2 years now. i still am always checking,where is she looking? what's going on? what's happening?
i have to be focusedthe entire time. otherwise, somethingwill go wrong. alan seales: sofor-- oh, go ahead. jennifer barnhart: i wasgoing to say, but to be fair, i have to too. i've been doing thisfor a long, long time, and i still am checkingand then going, ok, uh, am i looking in the right place? no, i'm not.
oh, it sank, uh-- so that'sa continuous process. veronica kuehn: well,that's good to know. alan seales: sofor the two of you that do the two-handedpuppets, do you find it more enjoyable or easierto have literally somebody to lean on, or do you preferto have just your own puppet? or what's thedifference for you? jason jacoby: that's areally good question. i mean, being alone with apuppet gives you more freedom,
certainly, because there's lessthat is set and choreographed-- and that you have to do thismove on this line or something. but there's still freedomwithin choreography, obviously. i don't know if i couldsay what i would prefer, because it's-- itactually almost feels there's-- specificallywith trekkie. nicky's a little different. i think maybe it's justbecause if she's not with me, nicky's hand gets stuffedand pinned to his side
so that he looks likekate and princeton, or whomever that justhas one hand available. trekkie, just the nature ofthe sack of fur that he is, doesn't get that. his arm just hangs limp--from over-use, i like to say. but there's actually times--especially when i first started the show, we'drehearse and rehearse doing regional productions. and we'd rehearsefor, like, four weeks,
always with this person with medoing "the internet's for porn" and whatever. and then i'd come out intoa scene like lucy's number in the cafe and i'm by myselfbecause the second hander's doing kate monsterwhile she's doing lucy. and so i'm sitting thereon a bench by myself, and it almost feels halfempty because you're used to another personbringing this extra life, and filling in therest of this character.
jed resnick: and thenyou're kind of just there-- jason jacoby:solo-- flying solo. and it almost feels--at the beginning, at least-- feels a little weird. there's a momentof, oh, i can do whatever the hell i want now. i'm not held downby the other person. but then it's like, oh,i miss my other person. i wish my other personwere here to help me.
jed resnick: i willsay, as an understudy, i've gone on for theseroles hundreds of times at this point. but when i was first goingon for trekkie monster, it was really, really niceto have the second person next to you to calm your nervesbecause you're freaking out because you haven't donethe role in three months or whatever, but also topush you around the stage to make sure you'regoing to the right spot.
so it was always reallycomforting to have a person behind you. alan seales: howmuch rehearsal goes into the two-handed puppets? jennifer barnhart: a lot. a lot, a lot, alot. alan seales: morethan the single? jennifer barnhart: well,i can't say that, per se. it's just a differentkind of rehearsal.
when i came back intothe show-- and having done this show foras long as i have, you'd think thatit's like, oh, well you don't really need rehearsal. you just need to pick up and go. but because i'd never workedwith jason before-- and i've worked with probablyabout 20 different people in that partnership, if iinclude vacations and covers and understudies andeverything-- and everybody's
gestural language is sodifferent that i need to-- especially because of whati do in the show, where i'm supporting the personwho's doing the voice, i'm supporting that performance. so what's nice isthe best partnerships are when i get to havea little input too and we sort ofcreate it together. but very often, i justhave to sort of go with what the otherperson's doing.
so when i start withthe new nicky/trekkie, if i haven't had achance to watch them, sometimes i'll say, let mejust step out and watch you. or better still, giveme the puppet and let me see how you would move asa human doing this scene so that i can observeyour gestural language and try to help translateit into the puppet and distill it into itsessence of how i can do that, and match it.
so there's a lot ofthat kind of rehearsal. but as for the individualpuppets, especially when people are starting tolearn, that's just the intensity of allthose three basic principles, andbeing in a mirror. and then you have to getaway from the mirror. and so it's a heck of a process. it really is. alan seales:danielle, why do you
think the creators of theshow chose your character to be gary coleman specifically? danielle thomas: youdon't see the resemblance? well, "avenue q" is looselybased on "sesame street." and on "sesamestreet," sometimes you have celebrity guests whocome on and help the puppets teach the childrenabout life lessons. so of course on "avenue q," thecelebrity would be washed up and gary coleman.
and so it's funny at first, buteventually, gary has a point. and i believe atfirst they wanted to have-- i believein the reading it was a white woman thatplayed-- who read it, a friend of one of the creators. and i think they mayhave wanted to have different kind ofcelebrities come in and out. but gary coleman just stuckbecause he's pretty awesome, and an awesome character.
but it's like having a guestcelebrity help teach these life lessons, but not reallythe best celebrity status. jennifer barnhart: andthat was also-- back when this wasoriginally created, the idea was that it wouldbe a television show. so there would bedifferent guests that came onto each episode. but i think partof the reason, too, why gary coleman specificallyis the show basically
was created-- thecreators said, look. when you're a kid and you'rewatching children's television and "sesame street," youlearn that you're special and you should dream big and allof your dreams will come true, and isn't that wonderful? and then you go tocollege and you graduate, and you're living backat home with your parents and you're temping. and you're going, well, where'sthe "sesame street" for me now?
because i'm sortof disillusioned by the earlier "sesamestreet" that i had watched. so you're-- it's a littlesadder but wiser kind of idea. it's about a bitof lost innocence. and i think that gary,being a child star, and then growing outof that into, well, what happens after that is inthe same track as the people who grew up watchingsesame street and then are facedwith that reality of,
well, what happens now? danielle thomas: and that's whyhe can teach so many lessons to princeton and everybodyelse, because he's been there andback, and then some. and still looksat it positively. sometimes, you know,gary has his moments. but for the mostpart, life lesson. we have a song called"schadenfreude," you know. gary was pretty muchliving that, you
know-- taking pleasure inother people's pain, you know? and we have a purpose. so that's pretty much it. alan seales: if you could doone of the puppeted characters, who would you be? danielle thomas: well,i love kate monster and i think i'm a littlebit of lucy on the inside. so i think if it was apuppet-- don't, don't. don't do it.
so if it were, itwould be kate and lucy. but i must be very honest, myfavorite character in this show is christmas eve. and it is my dream to bechristmas evening in one of these shows. (in caribbean accent) becausei think that christmas eve has a sister from thewest indies whose name is christmas evening. and she could comeand teach people
on "avenue q" lessons too. jennifer barnhart:i smell spin-off. alan seales: so i'm goingto ask a few more questions. if, again, in the audience,you guys have anything, line up at the mics here. so i don't think there'sa single person that goes on stage withone puppet, correct? everybody plays multiple ones. i guess this is similar toa swing, or-- puppety swing
or something--but how hard is it to switch between thepuppet characters? and some of youin the same scene? darren bluestone: i think whenyou are learning it at first, it's difficult to figure out. but then once you kindof get it in your body, the puppets themselvesfeel so different. like rod, the waythat he's built, he just feels a lotdifferent than princeton.
so the voices justcome out differently. and you just kind of get it. it's like messing up aregular line for someone else. at that point, it wouldbe like, after doing it for a year and ahalf, you know, you don't really messup a lot of lines. unless you're me. alan seales: question. audience: hi.
saw the show twice. it was just completely amazing. i'm curious about theevolution of the show. this is obviously avery polished show after all this time, but aretheir elements that are still being dropped or things thatjust happen spontaneously that then becomepart of the show? could you comment alittle bit about that, and maybe give us some storiesof things that didn't used to--
sala iwamatsu: we have oneline at the end of the show that we will switchout depending on what's going on in worldnews or politics and things the line used to be,when it first started, was george bush is only for now. so obviously, wehad to change that. and we've tried other things. now you have to come to theshow to see what we [inaudible]. danielle thomas:and obviously we
made a few changeswhen gary coleman died. so we just switched acouple of lines, but. veronica kuehn: yeah, i think-- nicholas kohn: and then-- yeah. veronica kuehn: sorry. i was going to say,generally, most things-- i mean, there's no majorchanges that have been made. but as new castmembers come in, they are pretty great about allowingyour own personal choices
as an actor to change andshape the scene-- different beats that you would takethat are pretty flexible. jennifer barnhart:generally speaking, though, once the show is opened,it's technically locked. and there-- because inthe preview process, it's changing all the time. once opening night happens,the show is technically locked. so for the first four yearsthat we were on broadway, the script was prettymuch exactly the same.
then after the las vegas companyopened and they made changes to fit that spaceand everything, i think the creative teamjust said, hey, you know what? now we've had a chanceto revisit this material. we have some thingswe like better. so we actuallyre-teched the show and incorporated 53 changesfrom the las vegas show. we had new lighting, neworchestrations, new lines-- but that's rare.
and from that standpoint, thatdoesn't happen very often. but within the confines ofthe show, as veronica said, there is some play. sala iwamatsu: there'sone song called "mix tape" where princeton makesa mix tape for kate. and it used to be a cassette. but now it's a decade later,so-- it probably shouldn't even be a cd anymore. veronica kuehn: it should be--
sala iwamatsu: it'sa little behind, but that's the closestthey could get. nicholas kohn: and especiallywith long-running shows, there's definitelygoing to be-- if you're in a long-running show, you wantto find new ways to explore, and find new laughsand new moments. i think it's inevitable withlong-running shows that we have to find some way to keepit fresh and keep it moving forward, and--
veronica kuehn: wewill have rehearsals. there are consistentunderstudy rehearsals, but also, our residentdirector, john tartaglia, who originated the roleof princeton and rod, will come in to sortof do a brush-up, and sort of workon-- he'll take notes at the show the night before. and if there's anyscenes that he's like, this if falling a little flat.
we're going to haveto work on this, just tjuz it up a littlebit-- minor, minor changes, mostly about us and actingchoices and stuff like that. nicholas kohn: a lot oftimes, it's reminders. jed resnick:veronica kuehn: yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. nicholas kohn: justlike, remember, this is what the scene is about. veronica kuehn: right.
something we talked about a yearago, let's re-implement that. jason jacoby: we usuallyhave some freedom when a new second hander comes in,or even a second hander that's been in for a while, ifthings start to feel stale, to think, oh, well,let's try-- we could do this little move here. we could try this little move. and johnny's beenvery generous with me about that, especially thingswith the double live hands
puppets, because it's allvery set and choreographed. it's like a game of telephone. it's passed down from20 nicky/trekkies ago, and it doesn't necessarily fitwhat i'm doing with the role. so johnny's been very goodabout, go look in the mirror and go come up withsomething else. and next time icome see the show, i'll let you know if it worksor if you have to go look in the mirror and come upwith something else again.
alan seales: all right,so final question. audience: why did the vegasshow have such a short run? do you guys know? nicholas kohn: therewas a couple reasons. i think it was initially--we were selling actually pretty well in vegas. it was hard forthem to figure out how to market our showin vegas, specifically because it was a new york-themedshow and things like that.
and they had somevery creative things. but it was one of those thingsthat-- vegas is very transient and there's a lot ofpeople coming in and out. and most of the shows arean hour and a half in vegas. ours was two hours. and so we endedup shortening it. and the otherthing is, i believe steve wynn had alreadyput in play spamalot to come into his theater.
and so they had to get thattheater ready for spamalot. and so we were therefor about nine months. i think-- from what iunderstand, we sold very well. and the local peoplein vegas loved us. and they came to seeit multiple times. and i think the theater was-- ithink it was like 1,200 seats. so it was a bigtheater, and i'd like to think our run in vegaswas pretty successful, even though we were only therefor about nine months.
i mean, to be honest,to be an actor and have a nine-monthjob anywhere is amazing. and then all the perks wehad out there with housing and-- we werecelebrities in vegas. everywhere we went, we'd havebottle service everywhere. and they'd be like, oh,you're in "avenue q." let's bring you over here. we want you tomeet these people. it was like living thelife of a celebrity.
it was an amazing job. but it was a lot of fun. and it brought me intothe "avenue q" family, and i've been with italmost ever since, so. well, again, thank you guysvery much for coming out. and that's it. that's a wrap. nicholas kohn: thank you. danielle thomas: thank you.
veronica kuehn:thanks for coming.
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