Tuesday, 30 May 2017

Chances Of Surviving Liver Cancer

>> coming up next on insights on pbs hawai'i, facing our mortality. [intro music] >> aloha and welcome to insights on pbs hawai'i. i'm daryl huff from hawaii news now. until a few years

ago talking publicly about life threatening or terminal illness was uncommon but today we understand that those who are seriously ill have an important voice

and a unique perspective about what it means to face our mortality. tonight as guests have all been diagnosed with a serious illness and are here it talk

with us about their life changing diagnosis and the journey that's followed. please share with us your questions and comments about tonight's show by

calling 973-1000 or 1-800-238-4847 if you're on a neighbor island. you can also watch insights streamed live at p about s what.org. just click on the

title of tonight's show or find us on twitter at pbs now to our guests for tonight's show. kirk matthews greeted viewers every weekday morning for 14 years

as an anchor through the morning news program at khon before his tenure at khon, mr. matthews worked as a reporter for kgmb and throughout his career he covered

senior and caregiver issues. mr. matthews is now battling stage 4 lung cancer and undergoing chemotherapy. daniel gray has been in the night life

business for more than a decade assess an owner, bartender and promoter. in 2012 doctors diagnosed him with stage 4 cancer of the ethnoid sinus cavity.

following the diagnosis he underwent chemotherapy and radiation and the response was a 99% tumor reduction. a year later he says the cancer has

reemerged this time in his brain and he continues to fight that cancer. and krista whitemeyer is a marketing director, local columnist and deejay who was

diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer in may of 2015. by september she says scans revealed that she's cancer free. she's now sharing her story to inspire

others battling cancer. entertainer jimmy borges who has inoperable stage 4 lung cancer told us he planned today but he told us today the reality of my

situation is i feel different day to day. this morning i was given to the hospital and given morphine oral solution to help me breathe and i'm

breathing better but 6 unfortunately the medication slows down my thinking. he tells us he'll be watching. that brings us an interesting point

right away. kirk matthews, day to day. must be quite a roller coaster. >> roller coaster is a nice way to put it. my voice is weak,

excuse me. first of all let me say to jimmy, hang in there, my friend. we miss you tonight and we wish you the best of course. jimmy and i are battling essentially

the same thing. 7 folks may or may the new know he had been diagnosed with liver cancer about five years ago, got a reprieve, and has since done very

well, but just lately, he already has stage 4 lung so it's a battle that he and i are fighting together. >> so he's made a decision to let things run their

course. >> yeah. he's gone through a lot of medical procedures while he was treated for liver cancer, and again with the lung cancer, but he's

8 decided at this point, from what i understand, to as you say, let things run their course. he's not taking any remedial action now. so that's one way

that we differ, at least, at this point. >> let me switch over to daniel gray. what is it like? ? you run a business. what's did like with

your health being up and down all the time? it's tough. you're unable to plan anything, especially with my business. my job is to take

9 care of the events, planning events, working events, working with promoters, working out details with producers and stuff like that, and a lot

of this work requires meeting with them, and i'll set a meeting for tuesday afternoon and wake up on tuesday morning feeling like crap and i can't meet

them and it's tough because it makes me and my business look really unprofessional, and the reality of it is, like kirk says, it's a roller coaster and there's

10 no way ever to predict what you're going to feel like tomorrow or even an hour from now. >> how do you keep up your spirits when you have that day to

day pressure? >> well, i just try and wake up and try and focus on what i do have to be thankful for. today, for example, i woke up this morning.

i usually have chemotherapy every thursday. the current chemotherapy i'm going through, i get one week off per month. i woke up today, i

11 don't know if my body indirectly knew it was thursday, but i woke up feeling down, depressed, laid in bed for a while, stared in the mirror and said i

need to get myself together so i can be a little bit productive, then it hit me, today is my thursday of the month that i don't have chemotherapy and that segued into

having a positive >> i'm sure you're excited about being on tv too. >> i am. >> christa, how do you deal with that up and down? 12

you talked earlier about multiple sessions of kimo and the way they do is means it's automatically up and down, right? >> it's hard. it's really hard to

plan because you don't know what's going to happen or how you're going to feel and every single day could be completely different, so you really just have to

take it day by day and hopefully people understand, try not to commit to too much. >> christa's point is well taken. every body is 13

different. how their body reacts to kimo, i have four sessions, just completed the fourth session, and interestingly enough, and again everybody is

different, i would feel great after the third day of it. and then gradually the effects wear off and then by wednesday you're supposed to do something with

somebody. after you finished up last friday, and you kind of go, man, i'm not up to it. and then christa is right. you have to -- you 14

have a group, a network that understands that. daniel's point, you asked daniel about how you face up to it, and thank goodness for whatever network you

manage to have around you, to offer their support and understand. >> you know, daniel, when you tell somebody "i can't come" or say they run into you and

they look at your eye and they say what's -- how do you tell people what your condition is, who you don't know, and what kind of responses do you 15

get? >> it's really weird because, you know, i meet people all the time in my business. deejays traveling or whatever, and i see them looking at my eye.

it's obvious there's something wrong with me, but i don't want to be that guy that comes up and says hey, by the way, i have brain cancer. it makes the situation

uncomfortable. nobody wants to talk about it, you know. >> awkward? >> yeah, it's really awkward. so my route is to just get it out 16

there from the get go and usually once they realize that i'm not uncomfortable talking about it and we don't even have to talk about it because that's not

what we're here for anyway, it usually is smooth sailing after that. i just get it right out front like that. >> christa, is that also your strategy? >> i didn't really

try to not look like a cancer patient. when i was going through chemo, everybody wants to try to help you look good, and i got some really good wigs as 17

gifts and it never felt right. i felt better just -- because people, i felt like they were more appreciative that i was even out and about, you know, and to be -- you

know. so it wasn't something i tried to hide. >> it's something that brings up an know is people wanted to give you gifts.

they wanted to do something for you and they gave you wigs and i know for some women, they might love having wigs, but what 18 should people be

doing in these kind of circumstances? >> i think -- the hardest thing is when somebody says "let me know what i can do" because the last thing you want to do is ask anybody

for help. it's a really hard thing to do. >> both of your copanelists are nodding vigorously. >> so if somebody says let me know if i can do anything,

it's like i love you, thank you, but i thank my coworkers who would bring me avocados from their trees or just knew that i was eating 19 clean and brought me

food from their garden was huge. people who just came over and said do you need me to take your laundry out or they'd bring mer organic soup, drive me to the doctor.

i started sign-up genius, a web site you can use to help your friends and family sign up. people who just say how can i help, it's a little bit easier to say ok, do this.

but the ones who just took initiative and dud things was really great. >> how about your perspective on that? >> yeah, it's tough 20 because on one side

you appreciate the support so much, you know, and i was overwhelmed at support when i found out i had cancer and i put it out there. just like christa said, everyone is

coming out of the woodwork, what can i do for you. and it's tough because you get torn between "i'm so independent, i don't need help from anybody" and you

have those days where you do need help but there's just so much coming from so many different angles and you don't want 21 people to feel that

you don't appreciated the help but at the same time it's hard to explain to them that too much is not a good thing because you can get overrun and buried with it.

>> being single too, people must have thought you don't have family here, i have to pitch in more. >> somewhat. i do have some family here.

fortunately my brother just moved back from the mainland. he just got out of the marines. but i do have family 22 on kauai so they

visit me every >> speaking of family, your wife linda cobolt certainly kicked into high gear in support of you. >> yes, she last and yes, she did.

without her i wouldn't be here tonight. i don't know where i would be. but i was diagnosed on november 9. the ultimate diagnosis was on

november 9. >> 2014? >> no. >> 2015? >> yes. >> only that 23 recently. i didn't realize it

was that recent. >> weren't you sick before? >> really? wow. >> she had a bad ulcer, just exactly a year before i got diagnosed with this.

but when the doctor said stage 4 lung cancer, on november 9, he said, i recommend you go to chemo right now, immediately. i said what if i want to wait?

he said i'll reserve a space in hospice for you because that's where you're going. 24 so linda coble, my darling wife, grabbed my thigh and

said "we'll take chemo." >> begin the choice. >> we'll take chemo. she's done a lot, absolutely a lot, and i can't do this, i couldn't be here, couldn't be anywhere

without her. but in addition to all that, a huge network of friends and people i don't even know. offering to help in whatever way they can, writing cards

and letters, and believe me, it makes a difference. even just people saying i'm holding a 25 good thought makes a huge difference. if you have the

crummiest day, and you know somebody is holding out a good thought for you, it can help you turn the corner. >> we talked about inappropriate things to do but the fact

that they're willing to say something still contributes a little bit. >> they're right there. it's hard, because i was on television for years, and it's

hard to hide that it's me, kirk, i've got cancer. now let's talk about the super bowl or 26 something. >> where is the anchorman here,

right? >> let me ask you, kirk brought up the diagnosis process. what was that like for you when you realized what was going on? oh, it was

absolutely terrifying. i'm 34 years old. the last thing on my mind is cancer. i went in because i had these just terrible, terrible headaches, and up,

they scanned my head and said hey, there's something in there, we'll have to 27 do a biopsy, and this whole time i'm thinking, i'm 34, i surf every day, i

eat healthy, i don't go to mcdonald's, you know. then the x-ray came back and it was cancer, and i have no cancer in my family so my odds were really slim.

but i was absolutely terrified. i didn't know what to do, had nowhere to turn, no one to talk to, doctors pulling you in different directions, messages

coming from friends who suddenly turn into doctors telling you, oh, a friend 28 did this and it worked. so it's just, there's so much

information and so much bogus information that just, you get pulled in so many different ways. it's really overwhelming, a terrible situation

to be in. >> that's when you're talking to people, when you're by yourself, what are you going through? >> well, i just sat there and i don't

you know, how do you come to terms with the fact that you 29 might be dying soon? the doctor told me i had three months, at the time i was 32.

i had my whole life ahead of me or i thought i did, and suddenly all these things i had planned to do, so much i want to do, places i want to go, people i want to see,

experiences to have, and all of a sudden an expiration date on all of that, you it was devastating. >> since that time how has your frame of mind changed? >> well, cancer --

when i was told i 30 had cancer i saw it as a death sentence, and i think most people do. and now when i look at it, i realize that i'm a lot more

hopeful about it. i realize that cancer is not a death sentence. it's something that you can learn to live with. it makes life difficult but it

doesn't necessarily mean that you're not going to be able to do everything you want to do, and i was able to make that change, shift of mentality, because like kirk

said, i have a 31 really good support, really good network of close friends and family can that stemmed up and kept my spirits up when i was feeling down and

now i look at it from that angle instead of an "i'm going to die" angle. >> chrisa, would you take us your through your experience in that regard? >> mine was the

same. when we found out about his diagnosis, everyone was so shocked, so a few years later i'm being told the same thing, and it's like, i still don't

believe it, 32 actually. like it's really just, you never really can accept it because it's like what you're thinking, like and

how you feel and what you're being told, it's all kind of different things at this point, you're being pulled in different directions. but --

>> what was your key support system for you? >> i actually didn't really have anything or anybody, or so i thought. i was kind of like withdrawn, and i had

33 a couple friends stepped up and just checked on me and came over to my house and said "i'm going to take you to the doctor" and took notes and you know,

one of my closest friends, she'll be on this show next week, she lived behind a naturopath doctor who does eastern and western medicine, and she was able to talk to

him every night about my diagnosis and get some options of what i should do, because i had no idea what to do. i had a hard time telling my family. 34

i had a hard time -- i don't even think, i didn't even tell my sister. my mom wound up telling my sister, and i don't know, because i kind of wanted to have my

mom -- i was planning to have her come out here to help me pack up my house and i was going to tell her then that i was dying, so it was like such a weird

thing now that i think about it, because i got through it, you and now i can't believe i'm even telling you this. 35 >> let me give

chrisa a little break. it sounded like you wanted a little bit more time just to think about it. linda would say no, let's go do what was spinning in

your head? >> denial. absolutely denial. i didn't feel -- i thought i had laryngitis. it was the end of october. i wanted to sing

happy birthday to this little kid. i love to sing, right, so i'm trying to sing happy birthday. 36 happy birthday of all things.

i'm trying to sing to him but my voice is cracking. the next day it wouldn't go back and i thought, well, so test after test after test, and then early in november,

you get that stage 4 thing. and i happen to know a little bit about a lot of things, and that's one thing. >> stage 4 is not good news. >> that's not

something you want to hear. so trying to process that in the doctor's office, and i said 37 linda and i need to talk about this, we need to figure out

what's next, and he said when he meant immediately, he meant it was on a monday and he meant wednesday, start, just like that. and so we did, and i'm very grateful.

and this is off the subject a little bit, but i have had my work done, procedures done here in honolulu, and we were talking about you get advice from everybody about

everything, and it's all appreciated. it doesn't go unappreciated, but you go with what you 38 feel is right for you at the time. and at that time, i

got a lot of things done at straub. i did it here locally, and i'm very happy with the medical care. but everybody is different, and so even people watching

should know that they have to make the decision based on their circumstances, their personality, their choices, their network, and this is what works for me.

>> that's on point of our viewers calling in. how did the panelists decide 39 which treatment options were best? let me ask you.

did you pretty hutch throw yourself on the mercy of the first doctor you saw or did you shop around or how did you do that? >> i did it first and i think that is

one of the biggest mistakes that people make is we automatically go with what the doctor tells us to do. >> the first doctor. >> the first doctor, and the first doctor

will have a one sided opinion about cancer is such a diverse, 40 multi-faceted disease and it's easy for people to look at it like i'm

going to do whatever my doctor tells me to do, so i did at first. then later on down the road when the cancer came back i started exploring other options,

getting second opinions, meeting naturopaths through christa and start the putting together pieces of what i thought would work best for me. like kirk said,

you've got to find what you think will work for your particular body and 41 your type of cancer. >> you also heard from meeting lots of other people who

have been going through cancer who also had advice for you, that decision making process has got to be very difficult for a 35-year-old who probably hasn't been

sycamore than a couple days in your life. >> it is, and fortunately we have the internet. i did a lot of countless hours of research.

i'm a very suspicious person when it comes to medical cures that 42 don't sound right to me. but i would go on line and there's a

lot of information on line. you've just got to dig for it, but there's science behind everything. >> christa, you also went through that same process.

did you shop oncologists or do anything like that? >> not when you have the diagnosis that i do. you don't really have a lot of time to -- i mean,

oncologists are really busy so even just to get the appointment with the 43 one, i think i waited a month, so -- >> worst month of

your life, right? >> it was hard, yeah. it was difficult. that was the worst month of my life so far. but because i was just so lucky to

have people around me who knew to ask questions, to different people, i was able to get recommendations for different types of doctors, so i had my medical team.

i had my surgeon, my oncologist, but i also had three naturopaths that i 44 was seeing. >> did you guys -- kirk, you had linda there helping

interpret things but did you guys have people that would go with you to democrat and say "he just said -- to the doctor" and say "he just said this"? >> like christa

said, when i found out i had cancer the first time they gave me three months. that's one of the reasons i just went right off the bat with the first doctor because i

didn't have any time to really shop around. when i came back, i 45 did have a little time to play with. that's when i picked the time to look

around and see what else was out there. i had one close friend who as soon as he found out i had cancer he said you're moving out of your house, moving in with me, i'm not

going to charge you you rent. i'm going to take care of you. he took me to the hospital every day, to treatments, wrote notes down to me, and made calls to

his connections in the medical field. >> kirk, what does it sound like when a 46 doctor is talking to you about this kind of stuff? >> you don't hear

anything. once he says the initial thing, you don't hear anything. thank god linda is there, she's writing stuff done, she's done to all of the sessions, and

they're long, you can verify that. it takes a long time for chemotherapy sessions, and she'll sit there, you know, doing phone messages, doing her but to have somebody

is that translating? i guess it is. 47 they'll say do you remember what the doctor said? no. she said thank good they, i wrote it

down, here. >> exactly. let me throw this out because we've explored this a little bit, but i think this is the theme of the show, and so lani from

manoa asks, "how last their diagnosis changed how they view their mortality, or has it?" christa, that's the toughest question for you since you're

saying i don't know. it's about death. 48 i hate to use the d word but it's got to come to your mind. >> oh, of course it does, yeah. i mean, i felt like

somebody just grabbed my collar and said hold on, you've got -- something not right, have to change what you're doing, now. and i feel still pretty strongly

about there's a reason why, you know, it happened, because it doesn't run in my family either. environmental. >> in terms of the question, i think,

49 is before you had this diagnosis, you saw your whole life in front of you and then when you had it, all of a sudden the fact that every life is a death

sentence in a way, but your time might have been shorter, how does that affect you and what did you think about that? >> that's a hard one for me, but i know now that -- i mean,

every single moment that i'm alive, like right now, is a precious gift, and who knows, you know, i could go through 12 rounds of chemo and then get in a car accident on the

50 way to one, you you don't know what's going to happen with your life and you have to just take a leap of faith and believe that there is a

plan, and it feels right when you start working towards men you were meant to and i think maybe that's what happened to me. i was maybe working towards what i

wasn't supposed to be doing because now that i'm changing my life a little bit, just dedicating it to helping others, everything 51everything just feels so right.

>> part of the reason i think all of us are here tonight is to let people know, like i said, no one gets out alive. so think about what matters.

think about what's important. think about who's because we all shuffle off this mortal coil sooner or later, some of us sooner than others, sadly.

>> had you thought about that much before november? >> not the end of days, no. 52 but you sure do have a long time to think about it now.

>> daniel, you're a strapping guy, right, and you were in this business that's basically kind of a pleasure business, and then all of a sudden there's this dark

cloud. how did you deal with that? >> you know, like i said, i'm 32 years old, you know. obviously we all know we're going to die someday, but for

me death was something way over there, you know. it's not something 53 that you address, especially like you said, in my industry that is discussed,

and it was weird to have that suddenly shoved in front of my face like hey, guess what, you might only have this very small amount of time left, and what that did, like

christa said, it really has changed my perspective now. every little moment is a blessing, just the tiniest things. today i walked out of my house and looked across the

stream and saw a mango tree flowering 54 and i appreciated it 10 times more than i normally would have just because hey, i get to have mangos for one more year.

just the little things they matter so much, that we forget, take for grantedded, and they suddenly become important again. >> what about ambition?

what happens to you're an ambitious guy, right? >> well, a lot of -- i guess what happened was a lot of my ambition switched from one focus to another

focus. 55 >> like staying alive. and helping people is a big one. i was ambitious toward financial goals, and then it

mitt me all of a sudden, hey, does this really matter? what's really going to happen with this wealth that i accumulate after i die? it doesn't mean

so i'm ambitious in different ways now. >> you know, i was thinking of a song we were preparing for this show that said live like you were dying, you 56

jump on a bucking bronco and jump out of an air lean and all of that. is that bucket list a real thing, that people actually do face this issue? >> i don't know that

it's a bucket list necessarily, as it is -- >> if he gets any closer. >> mortality. it's not a bucket list necessarily. there are things i'd

still like to do, places i'd still like to go, but it's more along the lines of what daniel said. and yes, before, did i ever think about 57 it?

i didn't think about that but every morning when i wake up, my eyes open and i say hey, thanks, i've got one more, here we go. and whatever the day brings, that's good

enough for me. now, even more so. when the eyes open up we just look forward to that day and what good we can do for people around us, for ourselves, and make sure that

we clean up after ourselves. >> you know, jimmy borges is watching and he sent us a notoriety on this 58 his comment is, "do you want to chase

life or do you want to live life?" from jimmy borges. >> cool. >> how nice. what does that mean to you guys? chase life or live life?

>> it's sort of rhetorical, but you started down that road. i have a friend, we play golf together. his name is tommy, and talking about, you know, got to

make sure, he's got money and everything. he said i'm going to be the richest family in the 59 graveyard. >> so true.

>> it becomes worthless and more and more about people, touching and breathing life, living life, not chasing it. >> how can i make somebody else's life

better today, you know, instead of how can i make as much money for myself so i can buy things for myself. it's more like how can i impact someone else to improve

their situation and the more that you do that, it just snowballs until it's all you want to do is just make people 60 happy. >> you folks are

actually working together on a project along those lines. christa, why don't you tell us about that. >> the aloha cancer project.

we launched february 6 and we're going to basically just be a resource for what we didn't know was out there when we were first diagnosed. we didn't have we didn't have too

many resources, but we're going to compile everything that we've done and just like a nice 61 easy way. it and like i said earlier, when you're

first diagnosed that first week is just and there is no comprehensive resource that isn't bigoted and we want to provide that, say these are your options, don't just

give up, it's not a death sentence, there's all these different options, these paths you can take, and most importantly, these paths don't be contradict each

other. they can help each 62 you can see a naturopath that might fight the cancer but also eases the side effects from

chemotherapy, and there's just nothing out there and we want to provide the second part of it is because we have so much experience in the industry, we want to

help people by promoting fundraisers. for us it's easy. i promote, she knows deejays, we got 300 volunteers. but for your average person not part of

63 the scene, it's hard to put together a fundraiser so there's lots of moving parts. >> we'll take a break and remind our audience that

tonight we're talking about facing our mortality. we'd like to hear from you so call, tweet or e-mail your questions and comments. call 973-3000 if

you're calling from a neighbor island. i'd like to follow up a little bit on what you're saying there, daniel, about the sense that some of your advice was biased.

64 what do you mean by that? >> well, i think that people that are educated in the medical field, they tend to go with their field of

spaization. my neurosurgeon wanted to do brain surgery. my radiation oncologist wanted to do radiation. my oncologist wanted today chemotherapy.

it's easy for someone who is so specialized to only see things one way, and to not open their mind to other potential forms of treatment or different parts to

65 take. so -- paths to take. so i think it's important, and main goals we have is to let people know those options are out there,

because those doctors won't say oh, you can also try this, you should try acupuncture or massage. it doesn't occur to them. and it's not coming

down on them because they're really good at what they do. >> best intentions. >> of course, yeah. >> as a journalist i can relate to what you must have gone 66

through, kirk. here we are, two journalists. there must have been a lot of analysis, taking a look. what were your impressions of how the medical system

handles this kind of issue? did you get that feeling too, like this specialist wants me to do this because that's their specialty? >> well, i

understand what daniel is saying, but i went through like four different kinds of doctors before i finally got to the on college part, and each one 67

-- to the oncology part, and each had their own opinion about what it might be or could be, until the final diagnosis. but i understand what you're saying,

especially the word "incurable." that's the word that was used for me. we can treat it, but we can't cure it. goes back to the mortality thing. sooner or later.

life isn't curable. >> what are your impressions of the medical system now that you've been forced to go through >> well, i'm amazed. 68 i'm amazed, because

there is a team. there is a team of people that look after me, and all the other people that they have to look after, and they keep us all straight, and i

admire anybody in that field, i truly i mean, i don't feel let down in the least. truly, you know. if i get in a crash tomorrow, i really feel that they can

be my best opportunity. so i have nothing but good things to say about the medical field. 69 i also have nothing say about all the

friends who think that prune pits placed in your armpits will clear >> did you make that one up? >> i made that one up. >> because you know,

we are getting a lot of tips from viewers here, also in the best intentions. have the panelists tried proton treatment, it works. you've heard of proton treatment?

>> i have. >> but it's only available on the mainland, and 70 another caller says oh, the lack of doctors in hawai'i, were they limiting

your treatment options? > i don't think so. i think i got great care, and there were some people who had said go to the mainland, you should probably go to the

mainland, and i didn't. and i feel like i had amazing care, and my medical doctors were in sync with my naturopath. they were respecting that i did what i

wanted to do, and everyone was working together with one goal, which was me. 71 >> my doctor said if you think you want to go to the mainland, he said,

by all means, we'll make sure that they have every single tiny bit of medical information if that's what you think you want to he did not discourage that in

the least. >> another one was, just to make sure i get through all these, here is another tip, ginger candy. did you all experience the

nausea? >> again, everybody experiences it 72 differently. not one time did i stay -- get nausea from the >> i stay away from

sugar, so candy, no, but ginger, yes. >> i made ginger tea, which was just ginger and lemon water. it helped a lot. >> one bit of advice i think you'd all

agree on is keep good records on yourself for the doctor. nobody knows you like you do. >> ok. so to change gears a little bit, i've got

a couple of questions with 73people who are asking about spirituality and faith. and how did it affect you folks in that way?

let me start with you, daniel. did you -- did religion or faith have anything to do with how you coped or did it change at all when you talked about death, thought

about death? i've always had this sort of ambiguous view on spirituality in general. i mean, i don't believe in god, but i also wouldn't consider myself an

74 atheist because i'm open minded to the possibilities of there being something more. i hope there's something more than this, you know.

but it's not something that i really thought about directly until i was faced with my deaths, and then i said hey, well, it might be right over there, so i wonder

happen after that. but i think i looked at that time more as a curiosity than anything else. >> you didn't have any moments where you asked god, why 75

are you doing this to me? did it almost drive you away from god as opposed to some people who are drawn to it in a sort of sense? >> no, neither.

i never once affiliated my illness with any sort of higher power. >> christa, what about you? i think a lot of people expect that

there's going to be a religious experience associated with this experience. >> i never was very religious growing up, but i believed 76

in god. i would say that i was spiritual. and then after this happened, it was just too much that was happening that i felt like it was a gift from god, and i

mean, now more than ever, i'm very spiritual. i'm not really clear on what religion, but i'm going to follow, but i believe in god, and i believe that we're

all love and that's what we're going to go back to, and that's our only job is to just love each >> so you actually feel this experience 77 has been a blessing

to you? >> oh, yeah, absolutely. i'm really glad. >> that's a very healthy outlook. >> i just people like i was on the wrong path, and i

just got yanked out of it and there are some things i needed to understand. i needed to learn how to love myself, and i was wondering why i'm 40 and still single, and i was

like, you don't know how to love, so how can you -- you know, there's a lot that i learned about myself since may. but that was a big 78 one, spirituality is

a big one for me. >> boat of these folks, actually these are the older people with cancer than you. you only started four or five months ago, two or three

months ago and these folks have been going through it for a couple of years, but yourself, how did it affect you spiritual? >> i don't think there was a blinding

flash of light or anything like that. i've always considered myself, as you say, spiritual, not religious per se, 79 but certainly

believe in something after death. there's got to be so there was no -- but it does kind of make you focus a little more on your day to day life. you're a little more

careful with what you say to people. by careful, i mean you're not here to hurt anybody. for sure. about everything that you do, day to but i still say a

little prayer when i go to sleep, just -- >> like you did since you were a little kid. 80 >> an interesting comment on this point from a viewer.

our christian background perhaps makes death a frightening experience but near death experiences have usually been good, positive ones, so don't fear death.

how has that changed? are you guys afraid to die? fear the righted word. at first, yes, but i wasn't terrified of the actual dying.

i was more terrified of the wait, 'tis has to end at some 81 point, you know. >> i'm having a good time. >> what about you, christa?

>> fear of death, is that something you've dealt with? did you have it before, not have it now? >> i'm not afraid to die, no. it's not like i'm

looking forward to it, but i believe there's a plan. just got to do what you can to just be the best person you can. >> we get a lot of people who are

sending encouraging notes about having 82 faced their own illness. i think this program is bringing back a lot of really positive thoughts

for a lot of people. although one says did any of you experience severe depression at the another one, did any of the guests ever feel like giving up? christa.

>> yeah, of course. >> you don't seem like that. you seem so positive now. >> you know, there's a lot of people who were paying attention to me, and

you don't want them 83 to feed those bad days or why do that to somebody was my thought process. whether it's right or wrong, that's how i felt.

if there were days i wanted to give up, i'm not going to be telling too many people about that. if i had a good day i'd be telling the world about it, you but that definitely

comes, and you just have to take that and roll with the punches. because i mean, i don't know what else to say. it's there, and it's hard.

84 >> your thoughts about that? >> i didn't get depressed. i haven't been that's not to say i won't, but i think it has to do with

the power of other people's good feelings. i've always been somebody -- it might have been leslie wilcox who was the world's greatest optimist, and i've

sort of adopted that as my guiding mantra. i've not been depressed yet, but thanks to a lot of people around me. it may happen, but 85

if it does, i'm going to have people goosing me saying cut it out. >> daniel, you know, you brought up another good point about fundraisers, what is it about our

system or the situation where so many people immediately when they get cancer they have to have a fundraiser? what's going on there?

why are people put in that position? >> well, for myself, i can't speak for everyone, but for myself because i wanted to try 86 alternative

treatment methods, insurance doesn't cover those methods and they get expensive really quick. you're looking at anywhere from two, three, up to 10

thousand dollars per week sometimes, depending on what you want to do and where you're going, and it's a double hit because one, cover it, and two, you're probably

unable to work while you're sick. so it's a lot of money. that's where my fundraiser money 87 went. >> did you know at

the front end that it was going to be true and how quickly did you have to ramp up a fundraiser? >> well, we did a fundraiser right off the bat that was mostly going to be

to cover my living expenses while i was unable to work, and then when i started working with the naturopath and i saw what those costs would be, i had a second fundraiser to

help cover the costs of that, and there was a point where i was planning on going to the mainland and 88 exploring soap other options like

therapy. i had medical records sent to cancer specialists all around the country, and my insurance, obama care medicaid, doesn't travel

outside of the state. so i was going to have a fundraiser if i decided to go to the mainland. i ended up not >> so you ended up being one of the

people saved by obama care. >> oh, yeah. if it wasn't for 89 obama care i would not be there. >> explain how that worked for you.

you had no insurance when you were sick. >> right. i did bartending and managing bars and stuff for years now, and you know, it's tip based industry. you make money, it's

cash, you put it in your pocket, go home. you don't think about insurance and life insurance, anything like that, health insurance, whatever.

it's all kind of so when i started getting sick, i was 90like oh, i shouldn't go to the hospital because it's going to cost so much i ended up going and the cool thing about

obama care is that they insure you even if you have pre-existing symptoms. so i went in there, found out i had cancer and then applied for

insurance and still was able to get it, which was -- >> a new world. >> christa, yourself. a caller asking a specific question, how has the panel

91 dealt with the cost of treatment. how did you do it? >> well, it's true. you're not able to work. i work three jobs to live here and i'm

very happy to work but when you're sick you can't work as much, and i was really lucky to have the company i work for has health insurance, but it's only covering 80% of

the procedures, where $15,000 procedure, guess who's paying the other 20%? so it was very costly and i ended up really fast. the scans are so

92 expensive for the could pays. the could pays were so expensive and it was really overwhelming because normally i would just take another

gig to make up that money, but i couldn't work. so i was getting really stressed out really fast, and i had to start a web site just to start raising money, and

that made me feel better. >> so you had insurance. the regular kind of insurance most workers have, and when you got this diagnosis, did

93 somebody in the field or in the business say you're going to need to start raising money or is it something that struck you later on your own?

did anybody help with you that thought process? >> somebody else helped me because i really was embarrassed to do i felt like i have a job, i have

insurance, i don't want to be one of those people, but then i saw really quickly how much it added up when i got my second bill just from the scan 94

portion, and the co pay for those catheter procedures, you know, oh, my gosh, you have no idea how much i need help, and knowing that none of the natural treatments

that i was going to be going through were covered, and just seeing that price tag, i was shell shocked, i guess, and i realized nobody is above raising money

for their own health and people want to help you. they just don't know how. so people will help. you just have to trust that people 95

will help you. >> kirk, you're an optimist and everything but you're a proud guy. what was it like to have people throw a fundraiser to you for you?

>> back in december. it was amazing, an amazing experience. and in fact when i had -- whatever term you want to use, we're not going to have anything, that was it.

it was great to have so many wonderful friends gather, to help out financially, because both linda and i are retired, and the bills are still 96

coming in, relatively ongoing. we don't know what the final sum is going to be. but you're right. the pricing did come at one point and i thought, these

people are doing this because they like you, or they love you, or they care about you, and they care about linda, they care about both of you. just stand to one

side, let this go on, and let them experience the gift. they needed to do too, right? they needed to feel like they were doing 97 >> that's one way to

look at it yes. it's kind of selfish to look at it that way but you may be in any event -- >> they also say -- i don't know about this panel, but they say that funerals

are for the living. >> i'm not going to be there. >> so here is a really interesting concept because i've heard a lot of discussion about this recently

because when you're diagnosed and there's the survivor spirit, and there's the battle and 98 you've got to fight, so someone is asking, please talk

about the concept of fighting cancer versus just living out your life. daniel, does the idea that you're supposed to be fighting all the time, is that really

realistic? is that a helpful thing for people to say, oh, keep up the fight? >> i think so, because for me it was never an option to give up.

it never crossed my mind. i immediately said you know, the doctors came up to 99 me and said you're looking at maybe three or four months

on the outside if you're lucky, and i said, no way. hell, no. so immediately i was on the defense and i started to fight and for me when people say that, i get

random facebook messages, keep up the good night, man. little things like that are really encouraging. >> as a woman is it different, that whole fighting

spirit thing? is that a man thing or does that also work for women? >> well, i'm kind of 100 on both sides because i think about the people

that we've lost, and you know, i would never say -- i would never call it a fight because that like, they just didn't fight hard enough? >> are they losers

because they didn't -->> right. so for me, and people, that's what they love to say and you say thank you, but i never really could identify with that and it was

definitely a struggle and i felt like i was -- i wouldn't say i was 101 fighting more than just doing this. surviving. >> i think "fight"

is a good word. i mean, not everybody -- all of us in our own way fight it, and christa, you had a good point. somebody passing away for whatever

reason, it wasn't because they weren't fighting. it might not have been the way we would have done it, but you know, nobody wants to say good-bye, and we're

all -- fighters is what you do when you wake up in the -- fighters is what you 102 do when you wake up in the morning and you make those muscles move.

>> it is a fight just to get out of bed. >> sure, some days. >> another question i had, based on experiences i've been through, is that -- are people

overly preoccupied with what caused your cancer? do they want to know? do you ever get people, feel like you're being judged for some past

behavior that must have caused it, >> it's funny you 103 bring that up because very liensly that's been happening, and i mean, i paid extra

money to gets the whole genetic test, and i know 100% that i have no idea what happened. there's a few different theories, but you know what? i haven't, and i'm

somebody who exercised regularly and thought that i was eating healthy and knot that i was living a pretty decent life and look what happened. so it's really hard

to say what could cause it or think about it. 104 >> do you think sometimes when people want to know what caused it, it's because they want to

be able to tell themselves they're not going to get it? >> maybe. >> how is that for a general denial. >> i think that might be true. >> there's part of

that, i think. that's the old -- yeah, sure. >> people don't >> you drove a hundred miles an hour the wrong way and smoked cigarettes?

oh, shoot. 105 >> i knew i was going to call you bad at one point. >> no, it's ok. what is it that you do people say oh, what gave you brain

cancer? >> yeah, they do, and it's funny because i think that a lot of the reason they do is because they're saying well, maybe i shouldn't be doing something that

he's been doing because everyone is terrified of cancer, obviously. but the fun eye thing about that is people are so easy to point the fingers at some behavior or

106 some habit or some whatever you did, you know, like for example, lung cancer, doesn't have a fancy color like pink. everybody says it's

your fault for smoking or whatever, and i tell you, i went went to chemotherapy four times, was in and out of the hospital for two years and mitt a lot of people

with lung cancer who never touched a cigarette in their life and what it comes down to is this. cancer is unexplainable. there might be

107 little ties to this or that, but they really have no idea what exactly causes it, where you get it from and why you get that's just the fact.

>> have you heard that about the prevention message? there's so many messages in this society about do this and it will help you prevent, do this, it will help

you prevent. it sort of switches back and says if you don't do it, something could happen to you. do you think that's an appropriate kind 108

of messaging that's out there? >> there's so many mixed messages. i understand what you're getting at. that's the reason, not to give anybody a message about how

to live your life. what we're sending out is that count on every day, smile when you get the chance, and take care of the people around you. and you know, i

could tell people all kinds of terrible things that i've done in the past. oh, i know what it was, i lied to my seventh grade 109

biology teacher. >> you did? >> let me go pack to something, a couple of viewers are asking us to come back to and it's about naturopathic treatments.

now, you folks have -- you two both mentioned naturopaths, a big part of your treatment program, but did the treatments help, i think you said they

have, but you already never gave up the western medicine people were offering you too, so what's your thoughts about that 110 when people are

thinking oh, maybe naturopathic is better for me? anybody should try just one or the i think if they complement each other really nicely, and there's a

particular treatment that daniel and i are both doing weekly, still, the high dose vitamin c, iv, which is just like getting chemo only it's natural and it does two

things. it kills the cancer cells but it also reduces those side effects of chemo so 111 it makes it more tolerable. you don't get that

metallic taste in your mouth. and i was pretty healthy through most of it. you're pretty healthy and you're going through it right now.

>> you guys look great. i'm very impressed. now we've got about three minutes left and i wanted to make sure that each of you has an opportunity to talk

about what you really think people should be taking away from this. christa in 112 particular, we have someone who's asking you, you know, your

effort to put together one stop shop to get information on various resources. how can i get in touch with that organization. explain that and

tell us again what it is you want people to take away from you being on this show tonight. >> they can search aloha cancer project on facebook. we're just starting

out but we're going to be populating that quite often. and that will be the takeaway. 113 i'm dedicating my life to helping people because i

don't want anybody to have to go through this, the scariest thing when you're told that. i just want to snap them out of that part and get to the good part, which is

this was a blessing, there's a reason why, thank you. >> dan yes, what what do you want from this? i had one caller ask, what advice do you have for people

who are fine? >> the whole thing about the cancer 114 project is it's not just a one stop shop for cancer. it's a lot broader than that.

it's about living healthy, eating healthy, keeping a healthy lifestyle, from all angles. so even for people that are either, one, suffering from another disease

besides cancer or two, that are particularly healthy that want to kick it up a notch, there's so many things out there that we've learned over the past couple of years

that can help people >> i think it's 115 totally inappropriate to say to someone who's got cancer, but kirk, you've got 30 seconds.

>> the reason we agreed to come here tonight is because we all either know somebody, have a family member, cancer is so common. so glad that you folks decided to do

something like this. back when john wayne died they didn't call it cancer. it was called the big c and now we can at least talk about it and talk to people and make sure

that they understand there's a lot of 116different approaches. find the one that works for you, and keep smiling. >> we have somebody call in and say

could you please say the fundraiser web site of these lovely people so we can donate or if that's not kosher just say their full names again. i imagine if they

google any of your names they'll get so kirk matthews. daniel gray. and christa wittmeier, and jimmy borges in absentia tonight, watching tone.

117 thanks, jimmy, and thank you all three so much. it's been a great conversation, and so we have to say good night now. thanks very much.

next week we'll be continuing our series on facing our mortality by talking with those who have been primary caregivers to tonight's guests. what does it mean to

partner with a loved one through this sometimes very difficult journey? that's next time on insights on pbs i'm darryl huff. a hui ho. 118

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