judy woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight: president-electtrump announces his pick for secretary of defense. we take a close look at retired marine generaljames mattis' background. then: as a deadline looms for protesters,pressure mounts at the site of the dakota pipeline, where clashes with police have beenongoing. david archambault ii, chairman, standing rocksioux tribe: the way i look at it is, as long as the pipeline isn't under the river, there'sstill a chance, there's still hope.
judy woodruff: and it's friday. mark shields and david brooks analyze thisweek's trump transition moves and the democrats' discontent. all that and more on tonight's "pbs newshour." (break) judy woodruff: president-elect trump filledup another cabinet seat, while some of his supporters aggressively challenged recountefforts in three states. the "newshour"'s john yang has our report. donald trump (r), president-elect: we aregoing to appoint "mad dog" mattis as our secretary
of defense. (cheering and applause) donald trump: but we're not announcing ituntil monday, so don't tell anybody. john yang: president-elect trump scooped himselfthursday night, making his choice public in cincinnati, the first stop of his thank youtour. he met with retired general james mattis lastmonth in new jersey. donald trump: he is the real deal. he is the real deal. john yang: mattis retired as a four-star generalthree years ago, after four decades as a marine.
he headed u.s. central command until 2013,in charge of operations in iraq and afghanistan. he would need a special congressional waiver,because federal law says a defense secretary has be out of uniform for at least seven years. in cincinnati, mr. trump pledged to ease stillsimmering post-election tensions. donald trump: we're going to bring our countrytogether, all of our country. we're going to find common ground and we willget the job done properly. we will get it done properly. john yang: but at harvard university, topofficials of his campaign clashed with clinton campaign managers at a normally civil post-electionreview.
clinton aides said the trump campaign fueledracism. jennifer palmieri, democratic strategist:i would rather lose than win the way you did. kellyanne conway, trump senior adviser: doyou think i ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform? are you going to look me in the face and tellme that? jennifer palmieri: it did. kellyanne, it did. (crosstalk) kellyanne conway: do you think you could havejust had a decent message for the white working-class
voters? john yang: there were also sparks when clintonaides noted that their candidate won more votes than the president-elect. joel benenson, former hillary clinton campaignadviser: you guys won. that's clear, you won the electoral college. that's the currency. joel benenson: but let's also be honest. don't act as if you have some popular mandatefor your message. the fact of the matter is, is that more americansvoted for hillary clinton than donald trump.
kellyanne conway: hey, guys. we won. you don't have to respond. i mean, seriously. john yang: today, trump supporters moved toblock recounts in wisconsin, pennsylvania and michigan. the president-elect was in new york today,meeting with longtime supporters republican senator david perdue of georgia and formeru.n. ambassador john bolton. his schedule also included an unusual suspect,senator heidi heitkamp of north dakota, a
democrat. for the "pbs newshour," i'm john yang. judy woodruff: we will have much more on themattis pick right after this news summary. and late today, the transition team reportedthat president-elect trump spoke by phone with the president of taiwan. it is a highly unusual move. the u.s. cut formal diplomatic ties with taiwanin 1979. in the day's other news: the u.s. economyposted solid job growth for november, with the unemployment rate hitting a nine-yearlow.
the labor department reported u.s. employersadded about 178,000 jobs, and the unemployment rate dropped to 4.6 percent, largely becausemany people stopped looking for work. stocks were mostly flat on wall street today,in spite the better-than-expected jobs report, but crude oil prices posted their biggestweekly gain since february of 2011. the dow jones industrial average lost 21 pointsto close at 19170. the nasdaq rose four points, and the s&p 500added less than a point. for the week, the dow gained a fraction ofa percent, the nasdaq fell nearly 3 percent, and the s&p 500 slipped 1 percent. house lawmakers overwhelmingly backed a nearly$619 billion bipartisan defense bill today.
it will give u.s. troops their biggest payraise since 2010. it also prohibits the pentagon from closingmilitary bases and the prison at guantanamo bay. while most members of congress supported thebill, some criticized it for including over $3 billion more in war funding than last year'sbudget. man: it stops the troop reductions in ourarmed forces, thereby increasing readiness while reducing stress and strain on our forceand the families. rep. barbara lee (d), california: enough is enough.
instead of writing blank checks to the pentagon,congress needs to live up to its constitutional obligation to debate matters of war and peace. we need to rip up the 2001 blank check forendless war. we need to stop funding wars without end withno debate on the cost and consequences to our troops or to the american people. judy woodruff: the senate is expected to voteon the bill next week. officials in gatlinburg, tennessee, todayraised the death toll from days of fierce wildfires to 13 people. thousands of residents also returned homefor the first time to survey the extent of
the devastation. officials said the number of damaged homesand buildings is now close to 1,000. in indonesia, 200,000 people flooded jakartatoday to protest against the city's christian governor, who is being prosecuted for allegedlyinsulting the koran. the sea of conservative muslim demonstratorsgathered peacefully to demand the governor be jailed for blasphemy. ten people were arrested by police, who accusedthe dissenters of using the protest to overthrow the government. and ford motor company is recalling more than680,000 vehicles for potentially faulty seat
belts. the recall affects its mid-size sedans, likethe ford fusion and lincoln mkz, that were mostly sold in the u.s. the automaker says the seat belts might notrestrain passengers in a crash. still to come on the "newshour": who is "maddog" mattis, trump's choice to head the defense department?; dakota pipeline protesters facinga deadline to clear out; cubans think back on fidel castro's legacy; and much more. so, who is the man president-elect trump haspicked to be his secretary of defense? what's his track record, and how does he thinkthe united states should confront the threats
that it faces? for that, we turn to two who know retiredgeneral james mattis well. steve simon was the senior director for middleeastern and north african affairs on the national security council staff during the obama administration. he's now a visiting professor of history atamherst college. and michael gordon, he has covered generalmattis as a reporter at the new york times. for years, gordon covered the pentagon, andnow the state department. and we welcome both of you to the "newshour." let me start with you, michael gordon.
tell us what you know about james mattis,beyond what we reported a moment ago. michael gordon, diplomatic correspondent,the new york times: well, he's certainly an unconventional choice for secretary of defense,simply because he's only been out of the military for three years. he's been a marine in some of the -- a marinecommander in the hottest wars that we have had over the past 10 years, iraq, afghanistan,and ran the central command, which oversees both those wars. and that's a position that also involved himwith a lot of diplomacy in the region, i think. but he's famous also for a lot of his mattis-isms,his kind of sayings.
i remember, when i was in barwana, iraq, therewas a sign on one of the outposts that said, "be polite, be professional, have a plan tokill everyone you meet." i mean, that pretty much expresses i thinkmattis' approach. he was prepared to use violence to achieveends in war, but he also sought to work with the population and to, you know, constrainthe violence as much as possible, which wasn't always easy in an environment like iraq. judy woodruff: steve simon, what would youadd to that, and where did this nickname "mad dog" come from? steve simon, former national security councilofficial: well, look, i have never seen him
in combat, so i don't know how mad a dog hecan be, but certainly in his capacity as commander and as a senior u.s. official dealing withnational security issues, i never saw him as anything less than self-possessed and havinga cool head. so, i'm not really sure where that epithetcomes from. he's also known by soldiers who worked withhim and for him as the warrior monk because he does have a somewhat monkish temperament. you know, he's in some ways really into, youknow, self-denial and focusing on his troops. and that has won him a great deal of loyalty,which will stand him in good stead if he's confirmed by congress as secretary of defense.
judy woodruff: michael gordon, you said amoment ago he's prepared to use violence, even as he cares about the troops. and as a leader, one would expect that hewould. but what is his view of the role of the militaryin carrying out foreign policy? michael gordon: well, as steve pointed out,he's not a one-sided person. every military person has to execute militaryoperations, which means you have to fight. and fight to baghdad or fighting in afghanistan,all these environments wasn't easy. and he's also famous of his study of militaryhistory, his thousands of books, the fact that he claims not to own a television.
that's where the warrior monk comes from. but he has some views on foreign policy thatreally put him, i think, in the mainstream. for example, he doesn't want to rip up theiran agreement. he's criticized the agreement. he said he wished it would impose stricterconstraints on iran's nuclear program. but he said just walking away from it wouldwork against american interests, that the allies would never go along with that. he's against torture. and president-elect trump has remarked onthat.
he has argued against using that. he argues that it's simply not effective. and he's wary of russia, which, you know,president-elect trump, at times, has implied that he's sympathetic with vladimir putinor might want to work together with vladimir putin in syria. i think mattis would be extremely skepticalof that kind of approach. judy woodruff: well, fill in more of thatpicture, steve simon. how do you see mattis aligning with what weknow of what donald trump thinks? steve simon: well, he's a bit of an awkwardfit, primarily, i think, because he does support
u.s. compliance with the deal negotiated withiran to contain its nuclear program and to block its pathway towards a bomb. he has referred to it as providing what he'scalled a nuclear pause, but not a nuclear halt, and said, in effect, a pause is betterthan nothing. where he does differ, i think, from the outgoingadministration is his view that, even as the united states maintains its commitment tothe deal it negotiated, that it pushes back on iran's regional maneuvers. and i think, and, by that, jim mattis wouldpoint to do things. one is syria, where the iranians are very,very deeply involved.
and the other is in iraq, where the iraniansgained a great deal of influence after the u.s. overthrew the regime of saddam hussein. and i think, as commander of central command,general mattis is probably quite sensitive to the fact that many of the deaths of u.s.servicemen in iraq were attributable to weapons designed or provided by iran. judy woodruff: what about -- michael gordon,people are talking, of course, about the fact that he's going to -- if he's confirmed, he'sgoing to have to have this exemption from the law that says military people who arefew than seven years out of the military can't be secretary of defense.
how do you see him running that department,coming from the military? michael gordon: well, first of all, i thinkthe waiver will go through. senator mccain, who chairs the armed servicescommittee, has said he supports it. senator gillibrand said she opposes it, buti thinks he has sufficient support. i think that he has enough experience runninglarge organizations, running the central command. he ran the joint forces command. that requires a certain amount of bureaucraticcapability and finesse. so i think he, in his own mind, understands-- i mean, he would be the first person since george marshall to do this -- that there isa responsibility on him to try to run the
department as a civilian that he's only beenfor three years and not as a military man. judy woodruff: steve simon, how do you seethat? because there has been this tradition -- it'sin law -- that someone who's been in the military recently shouldn't be running the pentagon. how do you see him fitting into that? steve simon: well, look, he's going to haveto deal with issues that he hasn't had to deal with as a combatant commander or a unifiedcommander, r&d, weapons acquisition, large-scale budget issues, you know, personnel issuesof an immense scale. in addition to being a politician in his dealingwith congress in particular, he's going to
have to learn how to deal effectively witha white house staff. that can be a challenge, especially in anadministration like the one that's shaping up, i think. and he's going to have to be a diplomat aswell. now, i have seen him work in a diplomaticmode, and i think he's gifted in that domain. i don't think he's going to have a problemthere. so, all in all, you know, i would say thathe has good prospects for success. judy woodruff: steve simon, michael gordon,as we learn who general james mattis is, and he heads for confirmation, thank you verymuch.
michael gordon: thank you. judy woodruff: even as temperatures in northdakota are plunging into the single digits, the fight over the dakota access oil pipelineis only intensifying. william brangham is here with more. so, william, i understand there's a deadlinecoming? william brangham: that's right, judy. starting on monday, anyone at that large protestcamp in north dakota will be considered trespassers and could be arrested. that's according to the u.s. army corps ofengineers.
for months now, thousands of people callingthemselves water protectors have gathered to stop the pipeline. they say it's destroying lands that are sacredto the standing rock sioux, and that an oil leak could threaten the tribe's water. despite the army corps' order, and a similarone from the governor, protesters say they're not going anywhere. dave archambault ii is the chairman of thestanding rock sioux. i spoke with him earlier today, and i asked,with the deadline looming, and reports of 2,000 veterans traveling to north dakota tosupport the protesters, did he fear monday
could get out of hand? david archambault ii, chairman, standing rocksioux tribe: no, i don't. i don't believe that anything will happen. i believe that the corps of engineers is notgoing to come in with force, and i don't think the state government is going to come withforce. and i know that the veterans are coming tostand with peace and prayer. their presence is symbolic. it's representing the men and women who foughtfor this nation's freedom. and they're coming here to let the nationknow that it's not right to treat indigenous
peoples, to treat tribes in this way. we have to start listening to tribes. that's very symbolic for us to know that ourveterans, the ones who fought for this nation, are coming. and it's not to -- they're not coming to starta war. they're coming to let the world know thatthey, too, stand with us. and december 5, it's not going to be a showdown. it's just going to be another day. william brangham: so, if protesters do staythere, i mean, the governor and many others
have said that it is just not safe with subzerotemperatures being out there to sleep out on the plains like this. david archambault ii: my comment to that isthat it's not safe for law enforcement to spray water on water protectors in subzero,subfreezing temperatures. that's not safe. it's not safe to fire concussion grenadesat crowds. it's not safe to fire rubber bullets and targetpeople's heads. people are there, and they are ready for this. they knew that winter was coming.
they have some temporary shelters that arevery insulated and warm, and they are taking care of each other. they know how to check on each other, andthey know what to do in case of an emergency. so, it is a safe place for individuals togather and pray. what is not safe is the way law enforcementhas been using aggression and weapons on unarmed people. william brangham: we spoke a few weeks agowith the ceo of the company that is building this pipeline, and he argues that your concernsover a leak into your water supply are overblown. he said, this is going to be brand-new pipeline,state-of-the-art, all safety measures, and
that you need not worry as much as you seemto be. david archambault ii: and i understand wherehe's coming from. and if that's the case, then why not put itnorth of bismarck, north dakota? william brangham: that's where it was originallygoing to go. david archambault ii: right. if the safeguards are all there, then it canstill go there. he will say that it can't go there becauseof the population of the community, the environmental impacts, the sacred sites that are there,the wetlands that it has to cross. these are all the same concerns that we have.
it's just that we are a lot -- the numbersshow that we're a lot fewer. and so if the pipeline -- and if there isno worry, if the safeguards are there, then relocate it to that location. that's ok. william brangham: but the company says thepipeline is not going to be rerouted. the governor says the pipeline is not goingto be rerouted. president obama will soon be out of office,and president-elect trump has made it very clear that this pipeline is going to be built. david archambault ii: well, the way i lookat it is, as long as the pipeline isn't under
the river, there's still a chance, there'sstill hope. and it's unfortunate that this nation continuesto treat our tribe and tribal nations around this country in this manner. we have every right to protest this pipeline. we have indigenous lands, we have ancestrallands, we have treaty lands. the pipeline is 500 feet from our reservationborder. and history will show that the federal government,the state government has always built the economy, has secured energy independence andhas secured national security off the backs of our nations.
and this is another example. and so whether the government says, government-- governor of north dakota says it's not going to be rerouted, whether kelcy warren,the ceo of energy transfer partners, say it won't be rerouted, and whether the president-electsays it won't be rerouted, we still want to build awareness on the treatment of our nations,the first people of this nation, and how everybody benefits from the costs that we paid overhistory. william brangham: all right, david archambault,chairman of the standing rock sioux, thank you very much for being here. david archambault ii: yes.
you're welcome. william brangham: you can find all the "newshour"'scoverage of the dakota standoff on our web site, pbs.org/newshour. judy woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the "newshour": mark shieldsand david brooks on trump's cabinet picks; and is it time to end youth football? but first: in cuba, a procession with fidelcastro's ashes is approaching the city of santiago, where the dictator who died lastfriday began his revolutionary journey nearly 60 years ago.
in partnership with the pulitzer center oncrisis reporting, special correspondent nick schifrin and producer zach fannin look atcastro's legacy and the future of the island, starting along the route of his final journey. nick schifrin: the road to fidel castro'sfinal resting place was lined with the revolution's faithful, for whom it's never too early tobe wrapped in the flag. with the military that castro created circlingoverhead and leading the way, his ashes drove by into the morning sun. for more than 55 years, castro was cuba'sindispensable force, and many here expressed a sense of loss; 93-year-old zoila andreusain needed help from her 66-year-old daughter,
ailsa. they live together on the parade route. they were joined by a third generation, 23-year-oldgiselle gallego. this family's revolutionary faith hasn't faltered. giselle gallego, cuba (through translator):my admiration for fidel comes above everything. he wasn't just a leader for the cuban revolution,but a leader for the world. nick schifrin: the two matriarchs show offtheir favorite photos, a younger son, eugenio (ph), at the commander's side. fidel made him the head of a housing developmentprogram, and provided the family with opportunities
they have never forgotten. ailsa nerey andreu, cuba (through translator):women stopped being domestic objects and were given the chance to work, all thanks to therevolution and to fidel. zoila andreu sain, cuba (through translator):i love fidel. i love him very, very, very much. he fought for cuba. narrator: they had marched right across theisland in a triumphant progress, joyfully acclaimed all the way. nick schifrin: january 1959, castro and hismen seized havana and overthrew the batista
dictatorship. so began the hero's myth. he'd descended from the mountains and convincedpeople he was cuba's destined savior. for his fans, that origin story still holds. zoila andreu sain (through translator): hetook everything that was bad, and made it better. he will continue to do so from the cemeterywhere he will rest. nick schifrin: but 30 miles outside of havana,fidel castro's legacy is not as universally positive.
this is hershey, named after the americanchocolate baron, today, population about 3,000. castro's 1959 revolution promised a betterfuture. here, as in many small towns across cuba,the economic promises of the revolution have not been fulfilled. the train used to arrive here with cubansfrom many towns. today, it brings only a few locals, just enoughto keep 29-year-old carlos gonzalez afloat. he sells tiny, folded pizzas for 20 cents. carlos gonzalez, cuba (through translator):we struggle every day. i wake up at 3:00 a.m. to be able to affordfood, afford clothes, and keep on going.
nick schifrin: garcia's oldest client is thecity's oldest resident; 92-year-old amparo dejongh was the first person born here. who's this? that's you? amparo dejongh, cuba: yes. nick schifrin: wow. wonderful. and what kind of town was hershey? amparo dejongh (through translator): it wasconceived to be perfect, in housing, in education,
in social order. nick schifrin: her photos show a model towncreated exactly a century ago. hershey's sugar mill was one of the world'smost modern. after the revolution, castro nationalizedthe factory and all other american property. eventually, the economy collapsed. today, the factory is a heap of rust. once prosperous streets are dotted with homeslong abandoned. dejongh blames ineffective local governmentofficials. amparo dejongh (through translator): the politicalmachine is very big.
here, they appoint a leader and he does whateverhe wants. nick schifrin: residents are thankful forthe revolution's positive advances. the racial segregation that hershey imposedon its workers has been replaced with apparent racial equality. residents receive free health care, and studentsget free education. but, for many, the economic future remainsbleak. when you think about 1959 and you think aboutwhat this country has been through since then, do you view the legacy positively or negatively? he didn't want to answer that question.
his fear, says dissident carlos millares falcon,is widespread. what would happen to you if you criticizedthe government publicly? carlos millares falcon, cuba (through translator):automatically, they would drive me to the headquarters of internal security very fast. nick schifrin: in his living room, falconkeeps american and european flags. he says cuba lacks western freedoms of speech,participation, and multiple political parties. that keeps criticism rare and the oppositionfractured. in march in havana, president obama spokealongside current president raul castro. obama argued that normalizing relations wouldforce the cuban government to liberalize.
but from january to october this year, thegovernment is reported to have detained 9,125 people, more than quadruple the 2010 number. carlos millares falcon (through translator):the pressure on us has increased. i don't think fidel's death will create anypolicy change. the government will maintain the same policyof zero tolerance. nick schifrin: but 22-year-old alejandro rodriguezsays zero tolerance doesn't mean zero evolution. alejandro rodriguez, cuba (through translator):for us young people, we do need a change. we're tired of the same old, same old. nick schifrin: in cuba, the internet is rareand expensive.
so he collects the entertainment people can'tget, and copies it onto hard drives, called packets. they're full of local musicians who pay tobe in the packet, alongside illegally copied tv shows, and bad shark movies. the packets are delivered by bike messenger. unless the internet opens, the packet willonly get more popular, and rodriguez predicts that's not coming anytime soon. alejandro rodriguez (through translator):the packet will last. i don't see an end to it right now.
nick schifrin: in many ways, cuba's stuckin the past. but people seize whatever openings they canfind; 80 percent of the country works for the government, but, in the last decade, jesusreyes and half-a-million others have been allowed to go private. he's trained as a nuclear physicist. his wife's a biologist, and, together, theirjob was finding a cure for cancer, but that only paid each of them $40 a month. so while she stayed in science, he's drivinga taxi. jesus reyes, cuba (through translator): unfortunately,we have an inverted pyramid here.
the people who give more to society make lessmoney, and those who give less make more. nick schifrin: he and his 1957 chevrolet belair can make four or five times what he made as a government-paid physicist. he wishes that wasn't the case. he still believes in the revolution's principles,but he believes that cuba needs to change. jesus reyes (through translator): it's onething to hold static, like we are today, without perfecting or improving, and it's anotherthing to slowly improve. that's what people like me aspire to, whereour individual values are acknowledged. nick schifrin: castro always said that revolutionwas a process and that change was inevitable.
but holding onto the revolution's principlesmeans that whatever change does come is likely going to come slowly. for the "pbs newshour," i'm nick schifrinin havana. judy woodruff: now back to politics and awhole week full of cabinet picks. time to turn to the analysis of shields andbrooks. that's syndicated columnist mark shields andnew york times columnist david brooks. welcome, gentlemen. and i know you have been paying very closeattention to every one of these nominations, mark.
and, david, so it's james mattis to defensethis week, tom price, the congressman, to health and human services, steve mnuchin totreasury. david, what stands out here? what do you think of what mr. trump is doing? david brooks: i have to say, he's exceedingexpectations. sometimes, during the campaign, he seemedto be actively trying to misgovern. and here he seems to be to have an effectiveadministration. they're not all the people i would pick. but he won the election.
some of them are not only good for trump,but genuinely good picks. general mattis, i think, is in that. he's a scholarly man, a good leader, a manwith subtle foreign policy views. others are experienced, elaine chao, who hasalready been. other people, tom price, are experienced legislators. and so they're people who know their way aroundwashington, while i think representing the trump world view. and so i think, in general, for those of uswho were a little skeptical of trump, it's, i would say, exceeding expectations.
judy woodruff: exceeding expectations, mark? mark shields: a little skeptical? (laughter) mark shields: wow. that's dialing it back. mark shields: judy, i am pleased, relieved,and almost thrilled with the appointment of general james mattis as secretary of defense. judy woodruff: whoa. mark shields: general joe dunford is the chairmanof the joint chiefs of staff, marine, former
commandant. and now general mattis, former marine, soyou can be sure that there will be a lot of sniping from the army, the navy, because themarines are the smallest force. but why am i pleased? everything that david said about general mattisis true. he is a scholar. he's independent. he's thoughtful. he's smart.
he's a great leader. the marines have a rule, unlike any othermilitary branch i know: officers eat last, ok? that is, no officer eats until the sergeants,the corporals, the privates under his command have first been fed. judy woodruff: and you speak from personalexperience. mark shields: and nobody embodied that morethan jim mattis. he was very much an enlisted man's general. and the one quick anecdote, and that is, whengeneral charles krulak was commandant of the
marine corps, every christmas -- this wasin the late '90s -- he and his wife would bake cookies for the last couple weeks beforechristmas. and he would get up at 4:00 in the morningwith general krulak and deliver them in little packages to the marines who were standingduty that day, because every marine base, every marine post has be somebody standingduty. and he showed up at quantico and he askedthe marine lance corporal who was on duty, where is the officer of the day and who itis? he said, it's general mattis, sir. he said, no, no, it's not general mattis.
i mean, who is the officer of the day? and he said, it's general mattis, sir. and up comes jim mattis and a general, brigadiergeneral, and he is on duty and he has got his sword. and the commandant says, what are you doinghere? he said, well, there was a young lieutenantwho was on duty today, and he has a wife and two children. and i thought it was better that he have christmaswith his family. that's the kind of man he is.
it's the kind of values he's embodied. he's strong. and he will be good for the country. judy woodruff: wow. well, we're off to some high praise here. let's talk about something else that donaldtrump did this week. and that is, the first public speech he madesince the election, he went to indianapolis, and announced a deal that he's cut with thecarrier corporation, air conditioners, furnaces, to save 1,000 jobs, not all the jobs thatwere going to mexico, but a lot of them.
what kind of precedent does this set? what are we to make of it? david brooks: i agree with sarah palin onthis one. david brooks: she wrote an op-ed today whereshe called it crony capitalism and a source of corruption. and i think that's true. the job of government is to be a level playingfield where companies compete and make money honestly. and by rewarding one company over another,by getting involved in these sort of petty
deals, the first thing you're doing is encouragingrent-seeking, for companies to make money off government, rather than the honest way. and the second thing, it's -- and especiallyin this administration, it's an invitation to corruption. if you're cutting deals with company aftercompany, doing this kind of deal, that kind of deal, inevitably, there is going to bea quid pro quo. there is going to be under-the-table lobbying. and it's just a terrible precedent for oureconomy and for the administration. judy woodruff: even with the 1,000 jobs?
david brooks: well, first of all, it's a veryexpensive way to save 1,000 jobs. second of all, carrier is owned -- the parentcompany is united technologies, a defense contractor, totally dependent on u.s. governmentinterests for their well-being. if we can't lean on these people and negotiatea good deal with them, and where we have to pay $700,000 in tax credits to save 1,000jobs, it's a bad deal, even from that perspective. it's very expensive. judy woodruff: excuse me. are you as worried about it? mark shields: no, i'm not as worried aboutit.
i think it is bad public policy. i think it's a political masterstroke. i think donald trump raised this issue duringthe campaign. when it first appeared, when carrier showedthe gross insensitivity, where it was on youtube, where they went in and told the 1,000 workersthat their jobs were leaving, that the company was leaving, and it was just -- it was abjectlyinsensitive to the workers. and donald trump picked that up. it was part of his prairie populism of thetime, unlike his cabinet appointments to treasury and commerce.
but i think, judy, there is 1,000 people whoare going to have christmas who weren't going to have christmas. and were there deals cut? sure. and have there been deals cut on crony capitalismin the past? yes. it's always gone to the company. and it's been a long time. i give barack obama great credit for the rescueof the united states automobile industry.
it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs. but the fact is, we have had deals cut, andthe jobs have ended up going elsewhere. and i think donald trump, this is a masterstrokethat he said he would do something, he did it, and it's been a long time since the presidentof the united states has made that kind of an announcement. judy woodruff: what would you say back? david brooks: well, first of all, there willbe 1,000 people who will have christmas. that's true. but there will be a lot of people who willbe paying for that.
second of all, you will have a less efficienteconomy, so there will be less job creation. third, when companies ship jobs overseas,they don't like just take the factory and then move it abroad. they gradually do what is in their economicbest interests, which is to scale back production here or flatline it and scale it up there. if the economics is still favoring a job inmexico over a job in indiana, carrier will still be doing it, but they will be gettinga lot of taxpayer money, and we will have a sludgier economy. judy woodruff: so, mark, this isn't just adrop in the bucket, in the face of an enormous
-- enormous economic changes? mark shields: no, of course it is. but did he do something that positively affectedpeople's lives? is it a coherent national macro-policy? no. but as a micro-act, it's a very positive actpolitically. and i think it reflects better upon him andhis commitment to these people and their well-being and their survival than an awful lot that'shappened in the past. judy woodruff: well, we have been talkinga lot about donald trump.
i do want to bring up the democrats today,because this week in the house, david, they voted again on their leadership, nancy pelosireelected to be the minority leader, but with not as large a vote as the last time. she won two-thirds against a challenge froman ohio congressman, tim ryan. what's going on with the democrats? you're hearing more of them speak out andsay, we don't like the kind of campaign that hillary clinton ran, we have got to be worriedabout things that we weren't worried about in this election. david brooks: i don't think they're that faralong.
republicans were preparing for a big defeatand then reorganization. democrats were preparing for victory. so i don't think the democrats are that faralong on where the party should go. but you can see the objection to pelosi. she's -- the top three leaders in the houseon the democratic side are all in their mid-70s. she's some san francisco, not exactly -- ifyou're trying to reach ohio. and is she a fresh face for the party in anera of change? well, no. on the other hand, she's a really good tacticianand a good legislative leader.
and i can see why she ended up winning, becauseit's a local race. and they probably wanted somebody who couldmaster the craft of legislation. and, plus, they all owe her to a great degree. so, it's a testimony to her that, even inan extremely adverse climate, it's a testament to what people think of her skills, i wouldsay, that she ended up winning, you know, still by a reasonably comfortable margin. judy woodruff: what do you make of this? mark shields: i think david is right in hisassessment of leader pelosi. the fact that she's from san francisco, ifanything, is a help, in the sense that you
want a leader who can take tough positionsand not jeopardize their own survival. that's one of the things you want in a leader. she has been a very formidable leader. she was a great speaker. but i think for the people -- and it was aconsiderable vote. a third of her caucus voted against her. only 12 people came out publicly and werewilling to stand up with tim ryan, but, in private, 64 or 63 came out and voted in thesecret ballot for him. if there had been 35 that had come out, thenmaybe there might have been 75 or 80 who had
been so emboldened to vote outside. but she did prevail, for the reason that davidcited. in addition to that, to put the folks on nancypelosi is absolutely ludicrous. the democrats have an enormous problem. today, as we sit here, there are five statesin the united states that have a democratic governor and two houses of the legislaturecontrolled by democrats. that's the lowest in the history. there are 12 fewer democratic senators thanthere were the day that barack obama was sworn in.
there are 16 fewer democratic governors thanthere were the day. nobody redistricts state lines than therewere the day that barack obama was sworn in. there are 63 fewer house members. there are fewer democratic state legislatorstoday in the 50 states than there have been at any time in history, at any time in history. so, judy -- ever since 1900, i should say. but i look at this and say, the democraticparty is noncompetitive west of new jersey, all the way to carson city, nevada, with theexception of the blue island of illinois and latino-strengthened states of new mexico andcolorado.
other than that, it's red. and they're not competitive. and to just say it's nancy pelosi's faultand that her replacement would somehow solve their problems is self-deception writ large. judy woodruff: well, are there solutions outthere, david? david brooks: it's not her fault. i wouldn't say she's the solution, though. and so which way does the democratic partygo? i think it's likely that they will go in theelizabeth warren direction.
and that may not be stupid. there may be a populist way to tap into whattrump popped into. but so far that has never happened. so far, when they have gone left, whetherit's howard dean or jesse jackson, they have lost the heartland. and they have lost people who are angry atgovernment, but don't seem to be angry at business. and so going to the center would violate allthe momentum you feel on the left, but i do think there is some case to be made for it.
judy woodruff: are you saying that's whathappened in this election, i mean, in the 2016... david brooks: well, they culturally lost. part of the problem is simply democrats asindividuals, not as a political party, are moving to very few places. and so they're clustering. and that's just a demographic problem forthe party. mark shields: when barack obama was reelectedin 2012 with the majority of the vote in the country, first president since eisenhowerto win a popular majority in consecutive elections,
he failed to carry a majority of congressionaldistricts. that hasn't happened since 1960. i mean, so the democrats are not competitivein large swathes of the country. they're a coastal party. i think they have become -- and i think nancypelosi bears some of the burden on this -- i think they have become too culturally liberala party. i think that there's been a willingness toemphasize lgbtq issues, rather than working-class issues of people in declining incomes andfamilies falling behind and carrier jobs leaving. i think that's been -- that the democratshave become a party that, quite honestly,
is more emphasizing the cultural issues. and i think that's been to their disadvantagein their national appeal. judy woodruff: and on that note, maybe thedemocrats will have an autopsy like the republicans had. mark shields: it certainly helped them. judy woodruff: it certainly did. it did. mark shields: it was a good autopsy. david brooks: yes.
judy woodruff: mark shields, david brooks,thank you. judy woodruff: we will be back in a momentwith one view on why children should stop playing football. but, first, take a moment to hear from yourlocal pbs station. it's a chance to offer your support, whichhelps keep programs like ours on the air. judy woodruff: finally: as the college footballseason comes to an end, keith strudler, director of marist college's center for sports communication,shares his ideas about children on the field. it's another in our regular friday series,imho: in my humble opinion. keith strudler, director, marist college centerfor sports communication: i think it's time
we end youth football altogether. i'm not talking about the nfl or college football,or even high school and middle school. i'm talking about 5-through-10-year-olds,grade school kids, the kids that, when they put on shoulder pads, they're wider than theyare tall. let me be clear. i like youth sports, and i watch a lot offootball. i embrace the positive virtues kids can getfrom organized athletics. so, why get rid of kids football? i have got three reasons, and none of themhave anything to do with concussions, although
that's a fine reason as well. for starters, young kids playing footballis about as natural as pigs playing piano. they can do it, but it's forced. kids that age barely understand simple concepts,like how mom is related to cousin jacob or why you can't have cotton candy for dinner. but we're trying to teach them how the lefttackle covers the blind side in an i-formation. for young kids with developing minds and bodies,moving and exploring should come before memorizing playbooks. next, when most kids sign up for sports, theywant to do two things: touch the ball and
score. in youth football, the first thing coach tellsmost of the team is that you will never do either of those things, and, if you try, someone'sgoing to throw a yellow flag, which gets the whole team in trouble. it's like making the whole office work latebecause frank from accounting faked a sick day. finally, what kinds of lessons do young kidslearn from playing football? that boys compete and girls cheer? that success comes through brute force?
or that life's work is to take someone's property,known here as field possession? i hope that these are fading constructs ina collaborative, idea-based society. you could argue these are problems for olderkids in football as well. but with age comes cognitive development anda more nuanced understanding of the differences between sports and reality. a 6-year-old may not realize that footballis not a metaphor for life. now, this doesn't mean i could never get behindyouth football. imagine football if everyone touched the ball,and most people had a shot at scoring, where kids move all game, and boys and girls playtogether.
that's a football i could put my kids in. funny thing, that football already exists. only, in america, we call it soccer. judy woodruff: online: first lady jacquelinekennedy was known for guarding her private life while serving as the public face of the white house. we look at the new film "jackie" that aims to shed light on thiselusive figure. all that and more is on our web site, pbs.org/newshour.
on "washington week" tonight: a look at whatwe know about the trump cabinet and economic agenda and the challenges that democrats facein a republican-led congress. that's tonight on most pbs stations. and we will be back right here on monday witha look at the phenomenon behind art basel, the enormous, high-end art fair in miami. that's the "newshour" for tonight. have a great weekend. thank you, and good night.
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